Serato DJ crashes at start with big Database

dj-nice 6:50 PM 1 November 2012
Same as in Itch 2.x.
When Serato DJ's RAM grows up to 1,8 GB it still crash.
dj-nice 6:56 PM 1 November 2012
It seems Serato has forgotten to fix the memory leak....

Hardcopy:
s9.postimage.org

now last and final testing on notebook with more RAM
dj-nice 7:35 PM 1 November 2012
Notebook W7/8GB
Serato DJ starts extremly quick and runs very smooth in my crates.
RAM consumption stable at 0,98 GB

@SERATO
will this live with e.g. VCI-400 also work? Or will Serato DJ crash also when RAM Consumption will grow up?
dj-nice 8:48 PM 1 November 2012
Seems user with large Databases are the most not wanted user. In W7/64 with 8 GB Ram i played around till RAM consumption grows up to 1.2GB (i added some more Crates)

Hey what have you done last month? Only renamed Itch and spend some new FX? Will you be able to fix the memeoryleak?
dj-nice 8:50 PM 1 November 2012
forgot to write down in last post, that Serato Dj still crashes when RAM grows up >1,2 GB RAM

I miss a edit button...
gevola 10:56 PM 2 November 2012
Hey dj-nice,
yes this is a windows version issue.
I have the same issue with a "full big" database.
Can you please upload your database (_Serato_ folder) here, so Serato guys can take a look also at your issue ?
dj-nice 10:43 PM 9 November 2012
i can not really remember, how often i did such uploads (for Itch and itch beta)
The guys should have had enough bid databases.
Martin C 3:49 AM 10 November 2012
Hey dj-nice,

As you well know, and have been on these forums long enough, in this situation, the best course of action would have been to start a help request if you are needing help with a problem and require attention from Serato staff.

Are you able to point me somewhere I could get a copy of your large database? It would be really helpful for testing purposes.

I know this is nothing you haven't heard before, but we are always trying to improve our handling of large databases, it is something we know needs great improvement. Its a big task and is talked about often amongst many of the teams here working on the software.

I am sorry you don't have any solution at this stage, and I am sorry this affects you so greatly. I do hope that Serato DJ will be able to cope with a library such as yours by the time the VCI-400 is supported, but I can't make that promise.

Tweaks to the software to improve this aspect of our software is something our devs are always on the look out for, but if I am to be honest, the limitation lies deep within the fact that our software are currently 32-bit applications. From what I understand having our software as a 64 bit application in the future could open up the possibilities of our software coping with larger libraries and resolve many of our current memory related issues.

Again though, I couldn't say when something like this will happen, as moving to a 64-bit application and potentially rewriting the way our database works is a massive bit of work.

Please do not think you are being ignored, as generally, if you require support, you are more than welcome to create a help request, so someone from our support team can assist.

The support team is pretty busy, so if you make a post in the general discussion, we may not come across your discussion, as soon as we'd like.

Thanks :)
mr187 8:45 PM 10 November 2012
a frind of mine deleted is _Setato_ folder and just inported all his tracks in traktor and just drag tracks to itch decks from traktor. this should be possible with vdj also.
nik39 12:55 PM 11 November 2012
Quote:
a frind of mine deleted is _Setato_ folder and just inported all his tracks in traktor and just drag tracks to itch decks from traktor. this should be possible with vdj also.

That's funny :)
dj-nice 2:12 PM 11 November 2012
hello Martin C,

thank you for pick this problem up!

I opend a help ticket in the Pioneer SX Support Forum and did a database upload:
serato.com
Martin C 12:57 AM 14 November 2012
Thanks dj-nice,

I will jump in there now! :)
mr187 7:49 PM 19 December 2012
Quote:
Quote:
a frind of mine deleted is _Setato_ folder and just inported all his tracks in traktor and just drag tracks to itch decks from traktor. this should be possible with vdj also.

That's funny :)

I know it look funny when is djing like that also. but it works for him.
Martin C 3:57 AM 20 December 2012
Wow, that is pretty crazy. Essentially it is the same as importing a file as you need via the files browser in ITCH.

Over time, you will fill the library though, but I guess in theory it would only be the tracks you actually need to play :)
mr187 5:29 PM 20 December 2012
Quote:
Wow, that is pretty crazy. Essentially it is the same as importing a file as you need via the files browser in ITCH.

Over time, you will fill the library though, but I guess in theory it would only be the tracks you actually need to play :)


Right which mean no wasted songs in the database that never get played.
Martin C 9:41 AM 21 December 2012
I feel like this is a good thing. I think it is very easy this day in age for a DJ to have excess music and not enough time to play it/go through it all, your technique is a nice natural filtering process.

Although I am not making excuses for the fact Serato DJ cannot handle larger libraries, but I like the notion behind your technique, its almost vinylesque :)
Kittmaster 2:43 PM 22 December 2012
Quote:
I feel like this is a good thing. I think it is very easy this day in age for a DJ to have excess music and not enough time to play it/go through it all, your technique is a nice natural filtering process.

Although I am not making excuses for the fact Serato DJ cannot handle larger libraries, but I like the notion behind your technique, its almost vinylesque :)


Then you would be in the minority by today standards. You should come on a few of my gigs where the genres are all over the place and multi cultural, you'll find out how quickly that sentiment goes right in the garbage can. Scratch live continues to be able to deal with large libraries with zero issues, yet that code can't be ported over, its just not a priority even though it is said that it is. This all begin 1.5 years ago when I first started reporting it.

Regards,
dj-nice 2:53 PM 22 December 2012
@Martin C
Are you (SERATO) working on that problem or just talk about?
Martin C 2:37 AM 23 December 2012
It is a priority, and its something that developers, testers and support staff think about basically every day.

I think you will find that Scratch Live also does have its limits. But I agree with you guys, this is something that needs to be addressed, it really is a major problem for many users. I am sure you can imagine, and I am sure you have heard before though, to fix this properly is massive database re-writing work. Its not something that can be done fast, or without caution.

@dj-nice, I am personally not working on this problem, as I work in the support team and do not actually work on the code of the software. We express our frustration on this matter on a very regular basis, we voice our opinion for all the users such as yourselves who deal with this problem.

As I said, I wasn't making excuses, I was just appreciating mr187s interesting workaround. I apologize if this offended you guys.
dpetree 7:37 AM 23 December 2012
Hey Nyce, this is a work around you can try. I have a pretty large db too and don't have any issues. It could be for this temp fix

I have icleanmemory running. I have it set to autoclean when my 16gigs of ram falls below 5gigs free. Once it hits that, it automatically cleans the memory and releases the leaks.

I know this is not something that is a perm fix but it could help you as a temp fix

Just my .02
dpetree 7:39 AM 23 December 2012
Oh snap, forget that. It's for Mac and I thought you were on a MAC, my bad
Kittmaster 7:54 PM 23 December 2012
Quote:
It is a priority, and its something that developers, testers and support staff think about basically every day.

I think you will find that Scratch Live also does have its limits. But I agree with you guys, this is something that needs to be addressed, it really is a major problem for many users. I am sure you can imagine, and I am sure you have heard before though, to fix this properly is massive database re-writing work. Its not something that can be done fast, or without caution.

I apologize if this offended you guys.


I've shorted the quotes since your response deals with both our answers. First off, for me, there is no offense taken, we are just weary and tired of the excuses as end users and people that have to answer to a client base when the software goes south.

Secondly, I just wonder how many at Serato are actually road mobile or club DJs as well as a Serato employee, I'm betting not many? As a DJ, users MARRY to their equipment and in this case software. There are some than can work with multiple controllers and other brands without issue and all the power to them, but most find something that they like to work with to keep their workflow consistent every time and stick with it......i.e. the reign of the 1200's. I can't walk up to the bride and say "Gee I'm sorry, the software crashed while I was cueing up the father daughter song, do you want to wait while I reboot because the software crashed because I have to many songs and we can start the song over?".....how do you think that would go over? If you think that is a crazy example, then your not a wedding DJ and that's fine, but a bad review from just one bride can destroy my companies reputation with all the social media networks.

Finally to the rest of the point, if ANY of Serato's software couldn't deal with these large libraries, we'd probably understand the response of rewritting the whole thing, but because SCRATCH LIVE and ITCH ........SHARE the same library and files in _serato_ folder, IMO, there is no leg to stand on about this whole rewrite mess......I'm over 83K songs now and LIVE can STILL load them all up and use them without crashing....I'm just not seeing a year and half of not merging the load process's to be equal. It fails when it loads and sorts......you have the databases to test and fix it....while it may be a daily talked about issue, it just seems its not a worked on daily issue.

I get it that Serato has to make money and work with all the partners to keep their bottom line in check, but we were told this would be fixed, to date, if anything, 2.2.2 is in complete shambles and the forums without me even commenting are seeing it more and more (crash on load, large libraries, program just quiting). Serato DJ, same issue (with some minor loading files tweaks but ultimately crashes), and THAT was supposed to be a COMPLETE REWRITE....how is this problem still here if that is true?

These are just my experiences to date to respond to your response.

Regards,
nik39 9:33 PM 23 December 2012
This issue has been on the radar for at least three years. Serato had sample databases. Using those sample databases these issue were easy to reproduce. That was with Scratch Live! Basically these issues became worse and worse with each release since SL 2.0. Its really a shame that Serato did not prioritize this issue any higher.
Martin C 3:19 AM 25 December 2012
Hey Kittmaster,

I agree with most of what you have said. I am not denying nor ever have denied this is a major issue for some DJs especially, your example the wedding DJ.

Quote:
Secondly, I just wonder how many at Serato are actually road mobile or club DJs as well as a Serato employee, I'm betting not many?


This is an unfair assumption, we aren't completely oblivious to the problems that DJs face with our software, in fact quite the opposite.

I apologize that I am not developer to give you more insight into why this is happening, and why it happens to a lesser degree with Scratch Live. There isn't really much more I can offer you guys, other than what has already been said.
Dj SeV 3:08 PM 19 January 2013
I have this issue as a help ticket already and I don't think it's going to be fixed anytime soon. My problem is with scratch live however. Crash Crash Crash with any version over 1.9.2. This needs to be a top priority to accommodate large libraries.

I too DJ at events where I need my large library due to requests on the spot.
DJ Master T 8:14 PM 19 January 2013
I have this issue with my Lenovo laptop, it crashes 10 secs after loading....while it's loading the itunes library.... BUT, this does not happen with my MBP. I won't say the specs of my lenovo as I just use it for setting my itunes libraries, and then clone them to the MBP which is the Lap i use for DJing. So, it's not ideal, but not an issue for me....BUT it must be fixed.
VinnyFL 5:35 PM 15 February 2013
I agree with Kittmaster, I have Scratch LIVE running a little over 50k in my library, LIVE works without a hitch, I just got my DDJ-SX and booted up SeratoDJ and it immediately crashes. So basically I have to redo my whole library, which now affects Scratch LIVE as well. Is there a reason Serato DJ doesn't adopt the same code for the playlist as Scratch LIVE? why remove a solid piece of programming? (at least solid enough to handle large libraries)
mr187 10:59 PM 27 February 2013
Because ssl basically belongs to rane.
It has closed exclusive license with rane
LJ_WOOLSEY 11:10 PM 27 February 2013
Quote:
Because ssl basically belongs to rane.
It has closed exclusive license with rane

100% total clueless post!

The reason being is the code for the controllers and the xtra features and plugin like izotope means serato dj uses more memory than SSL. So to fix this issue Serato need to rewrite there programs into 64bit software so then serato dj can use as much RAM as we can chuck at it. At the moment serato dj is 32bit and only uses 1.2-1.5gb ram before crashing.
Certified Quality Entertainment 5:00 PM 28 February 2013
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the "most songs" someone can have prior to crashing. I currently have 22k which I think is an average library. Not large compared to a lot of people but not small. I haven't had any issues at all.
I do need to purge a lot of tracks I would never ever play but I wonder what that magic number is. 25k songs, 30k, 35k??
vboyd666 6:54 PM 28 February 2013
Quote:
I currently have 22k which I think is an average library. Not large compared to a lot of people but not small. I haven't had any issues at all.
quote]

22K is an average library? Man that's crazy! Most DJ's I know have under 10K in their library. I have 18K and I think mine could use cleaning out. I'd say that over half of my library is just stuff that will never get played.
Martin C 7:09 PM 28 February 2013
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, I wonder what the "most songs" someone can have prior to crashing. I currently have 22k which I think is an average library.


There can be a few different factors than can contribute to this issue, and as far as I know they are:

- Amount of files
- Amount of Crates and Subcrates
- Amount of Smart Crates

I have seen cases of users removing lots of one of these and still having plenty of the others to solve their issue. Our testers probably have more accurate formula/numbers on this subject, buts its probably not a straight forward answer still.

Quote:
The reason being is the code for the controllers and the xtra features and plugin like izotope means serato dj uses more memory than SSL. So to fix this issue Serato need to rewrite there programs into 64bit software so then serato dj can use as much RAM as we can chuck at it. At the moment serato dj is 32bit and only uses 1.2-1.5gb ram before crashing.


I am not a developer so I cant get too technically accurate, but I believe this is what a lot of the issue comes down to. Making our software 64 bit is something we have been investigating for a little while, and do have plans to do it when appropriate, its just about prioritizing it amongst the many other things we would like to do for our software.

I can assure you, that overall its in the master plan for our software, because reaching memory limitations are a big concern for us at all times.

I am sorry I can't bring you news of any FIXES just yet, but I thought I could at least be honest with you guys and keep the discussion rolling. This really is a tough problem for DJs with big libraries!
Certified Quality Entertainment 7:23 PM 28 February 2013
FYI, I don't have any issues with Serato DJ at the moment. Mine is working flawless, I was just curious.

I know people have library of 50-60-70k tracks which is insane.

I do need to clean out my library though.

Question. I have majority (easy 95% of my music in itunes. Would the best way for me to overall delete these tracks is go to itunes and delete from there??

In Serato DJ, I would just rescan tracks after I clean up and look for any missing files and then control+delete them in serato to get rid of them if they are in any crates?
Martin C 7:37 PM 28 February 2013
Quote:
Question. I have majority (easy 95% of my music in itunes. Would the best way for me to overall delete these tracks is go to itunes and delete from there??


Yes definitely. You can't delete tracks from Serato DJ. The way we access iTunes libraries is "read only" so iTunes does not allow us to make changes that will affect an iTunes library in that way.

Also, iTunes has a "show duplicate files" option which is really handy and we don't have this in Serato DJ. support.apple.com

Quote:
In Serato DJ, I would just rescan tracks after I clean up and look for any missing files and then control+delete them in serato to get rid of them if they are in any crates?


This shouldn't be necessary with your iTunes music. With any music not in iTunes, its only necessary if you have:

A: Changed the NAME of a file
B: Change the LOCATION of a file

If you have any missing files, it doesn't hurt to try and relocate them. If you know where those missing files are, it helps even further, to locate the folder they are in, inside Serato DJ files panel, then drag and drop that folder onto the "relocate lost files" button. serato.com

If you still having missing files, that don't have iTunes icons, then yes, you can CONTROL + DELETE to remove them, providing you have "protect library" turned off in the setup screen.

I hope this helps! Cleaning your library is always a great thing to do.
Certified Quality Entertainment 7:51 PM 28 February 2013
Great thanks!
Martin C 7:52 PM 28 February 2013
Best of luck!
DJSkeetRI 6:37 PM 4 March 2013
I run an NS6, was using Itch, just switched to Serato DJ. I can have EITHER my hard drive OR my controller plugged in. Plug in both, instant crash. VDJ, no problems, Traktor, no problems and out of curiosity I reloaded an old copy of pcdj and no problems. I spent a g note on my controller and the software doesn't support my library. A DJ software with a LIBRARY limitation??? I may not NEED every song in my library, but the first time a bride requests a song and I have to say "I don't have it" as someone mentioned earlier, that can quickly kill my business' reputation. And someone else mentioned it's a memory leak, if this is true and that IS the problem...YOU FOUND IT!!! FIX IT!!! PLEEEEEEEEASE!!! I prefer the performance functionality of Serato DJ over any other software but this is getting rediculous.
Martin C 3:37 AM 5 March 2013
Hey DJSkeetRI,

Are you using a Windows or Mac?

How many files do you have in your library?

How many crates and subcrates do you have roughly?

What about smartcrates?
beisi 8:36 AM 7 March 2013
Quote:
Quote:

I am not a developer so I cant get too technically accurate, but I believe this is what a lot of the issue comes down to. Making our software 64 bit is something we have been investigating for a little while, and do have plans to do it when appropriate, its just about prioritizing it amongst the many other things we would like to do for our software.

I can assure you, that overall its in the master plan for our software, because reaching memory limitations are a big concern for us at all times.

I am sorry I can't bring you news of any FIXES just yet, but I thought I could at least be honest with you guys and keep the discussion rolling. This really is a tough problem for DJs with big libraries!


Riddle me this Serato, In what logical way is enabling the VCI100 and Numark Mixdeck for SDJ deemed higher priority for development effort than pursuing 64 bit version of the software?

Are PC users with larger itunes libraries not users Serato wish to have?
Martin C 11:09 PM 8 March 2013
Hey scooterADAM,

We have to sustain a commercial presence and maintain business relationships with our hardware partners. Our hardware partners have deadlines we must meet in order to keep their controller supported on our latest software. This type of pressure has to weighed up with two other things I think, which are:

1. Adding new features that people are requesting
2. Maintaining our existing software with optimization and bug fixes.

We do our best to have each release bring a good balance of all three. As much as I would love for us to stop and take time out to focus on the second one, I think that if we were to do so, the time taken out might just have us drop off the radar a bit too much.

Our approach is to slowly work away at all three, and bit by bit, when necessary, clean up our code and implement optimizations. As developers work through it all, they intend to fix things that ITCH might be not so good at, and make sure Serato DJ goes the distance.

With each new version we are working towards a better software and making sure are ready to go 64 bit when the time comes.

Please understand that more than anything (especially if you are in the support team like myself) we want big software improvements to happen as soon as possible, however it takes time to build solid foundations.

Thanks :)
beisi 12:19 PM 11 March 2013
Hi Martin,

Appreciate the response, I realize you guys are in a no-win situation when responding to questions like this.

It is clear the roadmap is dictated by the hardware partners. And it seems Vestax and Novation are lower on the food chain than others.

I would argue that rewriting for 64 bit and thereby preventing the Serato controller software from crashing on startup is not merely a coding optimization but a crucial fix for this software to be taken seriously.

It is a poor workaround to suggest that users downsize their library so Itch/SDJ don't crash.

My poor luck/choice to have:
laptop PC/win 7, >200gig itunes library, vci380, novation twitch

Really really want to like Serato Itch/SDJ, have gigged with it, loved the flexible beat grids and UI. But I simply can't use it at the moment, Itch won't start up any more and SDJ is a long way off, and judging by other threads here, has the same problem.

I think both the controllers are great hardware let down by poor software. It is sad that there is no resolution in sight.

At least the Twitch works great with Traktor, the VCI380 on the other hand just sits there looking at me all sad wondering if it will be sold soon...

Regarding holding on the VCI, maybe you can let me know what you think...
* is the only option to use Itch right now to downsize my music collection and/or buy a mac?
* is SDJ for the VCI actually likely in the next 6 months?
* what is the itunes library size limit before Itch or the upcoming SDJ crash on startup?
RIDDIMNBLUES 12:43 PM 11 March 2013
What is the itunes library size limit before Serato DJ start crashing on start up? Not having any problems now with my 2009 macbook pro everything is running smooth with about 13,000 tracks in my itunes library But i would like to know the number limit before it starts acting stupid.....
Certified Quality Entertainment 2:28 PM 11 March 2013
Quote:
What is the itunes library size limit before Serato DJ start crashing on start up? Not having any problems now with my 2009 macbook pro everything is running smooth with about 13,000 tracks in my itunes library But i would like to know the number limit before it starts acting stupid.....


I'm curious about that too. I have about 20k tracks, 99% itunes and I have no issues at all. Granted my macbook is i 2012 with 16gigs of Ram which probably helps. I want to know if I am right on the bubble though.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:47 PM 11 March 2013
Nope 16gb ram totaly usless serato is a 32bit application and does not use more than 1.5gb

So this is your limit when serato gets to 1.2+gb ram usage it starts to stall and then crashes as it runs out of memory.

Sure if serato was 64bit it would use your 16gb of ram and be totally fine.

So if just using serato dj or itch anything over 4gb ram is majour overkill but if useing video aswel nice to have 6-8gb.
Certified Quality Entertainment 3:31 PM 11 March 2013
Noted...at least my comp will be future proof come the time serato does make 64 bit.

But either way my comp is running like a champ right now! :)
ivan zilch 3:48 PM 11 March 2013
what is this talk about serato crashing with huge libraries? i am a new serato user and thankfully have not experienced this (YET as i have not imported all my songs for now)

this is kinda scaring me, i am natively a traktor user for years, i recently bought the DDJ-SX and was thinking about migrating to Serato DJ, and I do have a large library so all this talk about crashing kinda makes me feel uneasy with Serato DJ

i really hope that this gets resolved soon!
Certified Quality Entertainment 3:55 PM 11 March 2013
How big is your library?
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:26 PM 11 March 2013
best thing todo is try the serato dj offline player and see how well that runs. (i know it uses more when you plug your controller in ect.) but if you can not get serato dj to open in offline player you defo wont with hardware attached.

also it all depends on how many crates you have how many smart crates and music. you can have loads of songs in like ten crates but then a smaller number of songs and thousands of crates wont work. it's hit and miss.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:27 PM 11 March 2013
also note it works better on Macs than on PCs. my mac is at the limit on pc i have to delete 65% of crates and about 20% music for it to even open.
dj jamalot 4:28 PM 11 March 2013
Must be a PC issue doesn't happen on my Mac I have 2 terabytes of videos and not a single glitch on my 17 inch i7 2.4ghz with 4 gigs of ram or my 21 inch iMac i3 late 2009 3.06 with 4 gigs of ram
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:31 PM 11 March 2013
it does happen on macs! just works better i.e more crates and music before the issue happens.
dj jamalot 4:34 PM 11 March 2013
I don't have that issue with 2 terabytes of video... But I don't have 500 crates either...
mr187 12:30 AM 12 March 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Because ssl basically belongs to rane.
It has closed exclusive license with rane

100% total clueless post!

The reason being is the code for the controllers and the xtra features and plugin like izotope means serato dj uses more memory than SSL. So to fix this issue Serato need to rewrite there programs into 64bit software so then serato dj can use as much RAM as we can chuck at it. At the moment serato dj is 32bit and only uses 1.2-1.5gb ram before crashing.


that was the answer for why controllers can't use SSL which is a closed partnership between Rane and Serato.
mr187 1:16 AM 12 March 2013
Quote:
Nope 16gb ram totaly usless serato is a 32bit application and does not use more than 1.5gb

So this is your limit when serato gets to 1.2+gb ram usage it starts to stall and then crashes as it runs out of memory.

Sure if serato was 64bit it would use your 16gb of ram and be totally fine.

So if just using serato dj or itch anything over 4gb ram is majour overkill but if useing video aswel nice to have 6-8gb.


maybe it has to do with item count more than item size.




:/ I thought Mac 64 bit os allowed 32 bit apps to use 4gb ? for some reason itch on mac can use a much bigger database than Pc.

Quote:
I don't have that issue with 2 terabytes of video... But I don't have 500 crates either...
beisi 9:25 AM 12 March 2013
not sure if its relevant but as far as I have ever used Itch I never used Serato crates to manage my music, am playing everything from itunes playlists, same thing I do in Traktor

I guess the problem is when Itch (and I hear SDJ as well...) tries to load my >200gig itunes library it runs out of ram and dies.

But this raises more questions?
* Why does Itch/SDJ need to use so much memory to load/read an itunes library?
* Is it just the way the Itch/SDJ code is written?
* Why do other users report that SSL works ok with big libraries and and Itch/SDJ not?

Traktor has always managed to load my itunes library and doesn't crash, I don't use collections there either. Also as far as I can tell it has always been a 32 bit app.

Serato, surely this is not a trivial issue and deserves priority on your development roadmap.
Martin C 11:54 AM 12 March 2013
Quote:
I would argue that rewriting for 64 bit and thereby preventing the Serato controller software from crashing on startup is not merely a coding optimization but a crucial fix for this software to be taken seriously.


I can't disagree with you here. Just to be clear I am not a developer, but as I understand, moving to 64 bit is no small task.

To make it happen initially isn't a lot of work, but the result of doing the work can potentially have many parts of the code break and cause massive issues for the software.

The aftermath of the move can take a lot of time to run through full regression testing and then when bugs are found, to subsequently fix these issues with further development work.

You can then understand that a potentially large unknown amount of time needs to be set aside for this, and put us out of action with doing other work too. To perform a large unknown task is pretty daunting for any software company I would imagine for some of the reasons I stated in my above post.

If anyone is interested I found this to be a pretty good article about 32 bit to 64 bit migration: msdn.microsoft.com

To answer your questions as best I can:

Quote:
* is the only option to use Itch right now to downsize my music collection and/or buy a mac?


I couldn't guarantee your library will work on mac, but definitely try before buying if you are considering this as an option.
Yes, downsizing is worth considering too (but I know its a workaround) I am totally willing to help you with the task if you require advice/assistance.

Quote:
* is SDJ for the VCI actually likely in the next 6 months?


I am always cautious of giving away deadlines, we hate to disappoint, but yes its scheduled to be released within 6 months.

Quote:
* what is the itunes library size limit before Itch or the upcoming SDJ crash on startup?


I will try and speak to a tester at work tomorrow morning to try and find and answer for your here.

Its a combination type thing that can vary though.
Its a combination of:

- subcrates
- crates
- smart crates
- amount of files

Cheers
beisi 1:25 PM 12 March 2013
On the last item, I don't use Serato's crate structure at all, only itunes playlists, so can I ask that you try to get an answer in terms of:
- number of files
- total size of files
dj t-money 5:08 PM 12 March 2013
Why is this happening with serato I thought they'd have improved all this madness itch was the same problem now sdj I've got a very big music collection and they got to sort it out
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:17 PM 12 March 2013
Unless you give them millions to employ the staff todo it it aint guna happen in the next ten years.
dj t-money 5:26 PM 12 March 2013
Yeah I agree but it is frustrating tho
beisi 9:09 AM 14 March 2013
bump.

Any word on the max music library sizing?
LJ_WOOLSEY 11:47 AM 14 March 2013
No you just have to try it every computer and combo is totally different with different results just download it and try.
cwiggy78 2:10 PM 14 March 2013
Hi,

Ive just got a ddj sx and had been running serato dj in offline mode for a week with no dramas. I was horrified yesterday when i plugged the ddj sx in and Serato Dj just kept crashing everytime i loaded it up. My library is about 24,000 tracks and its all accessed through iTunes within Serato Dj. Im running a 64 bit Windows 7 Alienware with 16 Gb of RAM.
I soon chanced upon a workaround which has worked everytime without fail. When the Serato Dj program closes it creates a folder called '_Serato_' in my filepath My Computer\F: in this folder is a file called 'database V2'. If i delete the folder '_Serato_' and then start Serato Dj with my ddj sx controller attached all is great and it does an initial quick scan at the bottom of the screen and is fine all working. However whenever i shut down Serato Dj and then leave the newly created folder '_Serato_' in my filepath My Computer\F: the next time i try to run Serato Dj program with the ddj sx attached it crashes. I can recreate this quick fix or crash everytime without fail using this method.
Hope this helps

Regards

Chris (cwiggy78)
beisi 2:41 PM 14 March 2013
jebus, I would like this work...

I tried all manner of things relating to the _Serato_ folder to try and get Itch to work with no joy... heres hoping I could get this work with SDJ (whenever the VCI380/twitch are supported that is...)
Fuidawg 2:59 AM 15 March 2013
Great, I'm already discouraged before even getting the release of Serato DJ for the Numark V7's when ever that will be! Something never change lol ...
pdidy 7:03 AM 15 March 2013
Quote:
Great, I'm already discouraged before even getting the release of Serato DJ for the Numark V7's when ever that will be! Something never change lol ...

Is the large library issue currently affecting you ?
Fuidawg 4:21 PM 15 March 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Great, I'm already discouraged before even getting the release of Serato DJ for the Numark V7's when ever that will be! Something never change lol ...

Is the large library issue currently affecting you ?


It's not affecting me at the moment, I'm still on Itch, but I can see what's coming lol ... not looking forward to the upgrade...
Certified Quality Entertainment 5:07 PM 15 March 2013
You can download Serato DJ in the meantime. See if it crashes using the offline player. If not, you should be fine.
Fuidawg 5:33 PM 15 March 2013
Quote:
You can download Serato DJ in the meantime. See if it crashes using the offline player. If not, you should be fine.


Ok, I think I'll try that for sure ...
Fuidawg 6:44 PM 15 March 2013
Can I have both Serato Itch and Serato DJ running at the same time? Does Serato DJ use the same _Serato_ folder? Or if someone can point me to the best place to find out info that will be great.

The last thing I want is for Serato DJ to mess up my Itch directories if that's different.

Thanks
Fuidawg 6:45 PM 15 March 2013
Quote:
Can I have both Serato Itch and Serato DJ running at the same time?


Sorry I meant installed on the same machine
Certified Quality Entertainment 7:23 PM 15 March 2013
They use the same directories. I have SDJ and SSL installed on my machine and no issue.
Kittmaster 12:49 AM 16 March 2013
Quote:
You can download Serato DJ in the meantime. See if it crashes using the offline player. If not, you should be fine.


Not true, if you manage to get it all to load at say you are sitting around 1G of memory "ish" and then you plug in the controller, that typically takes up around 300K of ADDITIONAL memory for the app to operate and will cause the app to crash......I validated it several times in DJ and 2.2.2 ITCH.

Regards,
Martin C 5:20 AM 16 March 2013
Quote:
You can download Serato DJ in the meantime. See if it crashes using the offline player. If not, you should be fine.


This is a good suggestion I think for those worried that it may affect them, however Kittmaster makes a valid point, once a support controller is connected the memory use goes up again.

If you aren't having this problem with ITCH though, its most likely you won't have it with Serato DJ.

@scooterADAM, sorry I took a while to get this info. Our testers are busy so I try not disturb them if I can help it!

This is an extract of some information one of the testers passed onto me, I hope it helps in some way:

Quote:
Win 7 machine

Crates

1 track - 2500 crates - 1 track in each crate
DJ 1.0 - offline ok -> offline play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 - offline ok -> offline play ok -> click manage auth ok -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.

1 track - 3000 crates - 1 track in each crate
DJ 1.0 - offline ok -> offline play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 - offline ok -> offline play ok -> click manage auth crash

1 track - 3500 crates - 1 track in each crate
DJ 1.0 - offline ok -> offline play crash
DJ 1.1 - offline crash

1 track - 4000 crates - 1 track in each crate
DJ 1.0 - offline runtime error (crash) -> no other tests
DJ 1.1 - offline runtime error (crash) -> no other tests

1 track - 5000 crates - 1 track in each crate
DJ 1.0 - offline runtime error (crash) -> no other tests
DJ 1.1 - offline runtime error (crash) -> no other tests

Tracks

50000 tracks - 0 crates
DJ 1.0 -
offline ok -> offline play ok -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 -
offline ok -> offline play ok -> click manage auth ok -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.

125000 tracks - 0 crates
DJ 1.0 -
offline ok -> offline play (crash) -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 -
offline (crash)


There will be most likely some more thorough testing notes somewhere, but I think thats a pretty good indication of the limitations.

I believe Apple computers may allow for slightly higher limits, but more than likely will reach a limit around a similar value.

I'm sorry I can't help you guys a whole lot more than telling you how I see it, letting you know its on the radar, but not give you expectations that this problem will be fixed overnight.

Trust that the support team (and others in the company) raise this issue on the regular, in order to keep the pressure constant and not let our superiors forget how this affects you all.
DJ SHELL (JA) 5:10 PM 17 April 2013
Both itch and serato dj crashes when you load up lots of crates..Im struggling because when i add new music and when im playing out i never know when im gonna get a crash. im a professional dj, that's what i do everyday all day, i have to put my ipod on one of my Ns6 line inputs just in case i get a crash i can talk in the next son and restart..this happens pretty often.. you guys need a patch or something to fix this. u guys are making me look bad,plus i hate having to worry about adding new music...serato might crash.
cwiggy78 5:23 PM 17 April 2013
Hi,

Due to this issue which in my opinion is not acceptable for such a large company they have lost my support now and I have crossed over to Traktor for good.
pdidy 7:04 PM 17 April 2013
Quote:
Both itch and serato dj crashes when you load up lots of crates..Im struggling because when i add new music and when im playing out i never know when im gonna get a crash. im a professional dj, that's what i do everyday all day, i have to put my ipod on one of my Ns6 line inputs just in case i get a crash i can talk in the next son and restart..this happens pretty often.. you guys need a patch or something to fix this. u guys are making me look bad,plus i hate having to worry about adding new music...serato might crash.

If this happens pretty often then YOU are not providing a professional service. Clients don't no about nor do they care about Serato bug or malfunctions. They only no YOU failed.
Kittmaster 7:08 PM 17 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Both itch and serato dj crashes when you load up lots of crates..Im struggling because when i add new music and when im playing out i never know when im gonna get a crash. im a professional dj, that's what i do everyday all day, i have to put my ipod on one of my Ns6 line inputs just in case i get a crash i can talk in the next son and restart..this happens pretty often.. you guys need a patch or something to fix this. u guys are making me look bad,plus i hate having to worry about adding new music...serato might crash.

If this happens pretty often then YOU are not providing a professional service. Clients don't no about nor do they care about Serato bug or malfunctions. They only no YOU failed.


Which is why HE is HERE to voice a COMPLAINT about getting something FIXED that I started REPORTING over 1.5 YEARS ago......but good job in digging into him for the obvious....feel better now?
dj-nice 7:09 PM 17 April 2013
Look for alternatives......

In the next month (years) you will not get a bugfix for this bug. I am waiting since my first report with the start of Itch 2.0 at 4 August, 2011.

yes, since 08 - 2011, I could not use Serato

The support told me in Serato DJ this was fixed. I was a big idiot... sold my DX, got SDJ for 199 $ and a Vestax VCI-400

They fixed nothing and wont fix it in future....i am sure
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:02 PM 17 April 2013
Ya i asked if they even plan on doing 64bit version of serato dj and was told sorry there are no plans for 64bit support.

Shocking!!!!
pdidy 8:16 PM 17 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Both itch and serato dj crashes when you load up lots of crates..Im struggling because when i add new music and when im playing out i never know when im gonna get a crash. im a professional dj, that's what i do everyday all day, i have to put my ipod on one of my Ns6 line inputs just in case i get a crash i can talk in the next son and restart..this happens pretty often.. you guys need a patch or something to fix this. u guys are making me look bad,plus i hate having to worry about adding new music...serato might crash.

If this happens pretty often then YOU are not providing a professional service. Clients don't no about nor do they care about Serato bug or malfunctions. They only no YOU failed.


Which is why HE is HERE to voice a COMPLAINT about getting something FIXED that I started REPORTING over 1.5 YEARS ago......but good job in digging into him for the obvious....feel better now?

Yes

Maybe that's what someone needed to tell him and others like him a long time ago.

If you are knowingly performing live with malfunctioning gear are you providing a professional service ? The obvious answer is no.

A professional will look for alternative, options, fixes........they will never EVER allow repeated FAILERS.

IN no way what so ever am I giving Serato a pass on this issue.......I'm suggesting a "professional dj" needs to take a more proactive approach at find a solution.

Crossing your fingers and doing nothing is not an option in my opinion.
Kittmaster 12:32 AM 18 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Both itch and serato dj crashes when you load up lots of crates..Im struggling because when i add new music and when im playing out i never know when im gonna get a crash. im a professional dj, that's what i do everyday all day, i have to put my ipod on one of my Ns6 line inputs just in case i get a crash i can talk in the next son and restart..this happens pretty often.. you guys need a patch or something to fix this. u guys are making me look bad,plus i hate having to worry about adding new music...serato might crash.

If this happens pretty often then YOU are not providing a professional service. Clients don't no about nor do they care about Serato bug or malfunctions. They only no YOU failed.


Which is why HE is HERE to voice a COMPLAINT about getting something FIXED that I started REPORTING over 1.5 YEARS ago......but good job in digging into him for the obvious....feel better now?

Yes

Maybe that's what someone needed to tell him and others like him a long time ago.

If you are knowingly performing live with malfunctioning gear are you providing a professional service ? The obvious answer is no.

A professional will look for alternative, options, fixes........they will never EVER allow repeated FAILERS.

IN no way what so ever am I giving Serato a pass on this issue.......I'm suggesting a "professional dj" needs to take a more proactive approach at find a solution.

Crossing your fingers and doing nothing is not an option in my opinion.


And I 100% agree with you on that.
Martin C 7:47 AM 18 April 2013
Guys, I know this is really a frustrating issue to have happen.

At the end of the day, if the software isn't working for your library, you have to try out other options.

If you do wish to troubleshoot with us and try and few things, please start a help request and we are more than happy to do what we can to help with the issue.

Martin
LJ_WOOLSEY 9:02 AM 18 April 2013
Im just glad i remeber the old days when serato was the leader in the game and really did what they could for Djs. Now tho its just dissapointment.

Still my choice of software tho, just have to work on my library alot more to stop crashes.

And dream about serato features being in serato software!

Hopefuly on day someone buys serato out and invests money back into the company and can rebuild its name.

Will say tho what does work in serato products works very well and has made me good money!

Still got the love but all this dissapointment is chipping away.

In the mean time back to djing lol.
Martin C 10:12 AM 18 April 2013
Quote:
and really did what they could for Djs.


We haven't stopped caring about DJs, trust me. Thinking about usability and whats best for the DJ is at the forefront of EVERY decision we make.

The way I see it, we try to have a good balance of three main things with each release:

- Controller Support

To provide commercial growth and choices for our customers

- Maintenance

To maintain and fix existing or new bugs.

- Features

To implement new or requested features, or bring new ideas to the table.

Keep in mind that if you focus too much on ONE of these for a period of time, the other two become neglected and the balance is lost.

I am not trying to make excuses, but please keep all of the above in mind. We strive to do our best at all three with what resources we have.
dj-nice 11:03 AM 18 April 2013
Hallo Martin, thanks for picking up this problem. Now i will see my daily crashes with other eyes.....
Big Pops 4:33 AM 20 April 2013
Martin C large library crashes has always been a problem for Serato weather SSL,Itch or Serato DJ, what strikes me is that Serato take so long to get this issue under control.
Martin C 3:44 AM 21 April 2013
This is most likely the nature of the application being 32 bit, there is always going to be some memory limitation.

The number of people now experiencing this issue and therefore the important of the issue has grown in the last 1-2 years in my opinion.

Its not something we can fix with one release, but its something we have been working on in increments with each version.

Ultimately there is only so much that can be done still, before you are ultimately faced again with the limitations of 32 bit applications. There isn't much more I can say on that, that I haven't already said here: serato.com

I'm sorry guys, I am not sure what else I can tell you at this point.
Big Pops 6:24 AM 21 April 2013
Also SeratoDJ is the new kid on the block why did Serato didn't write a 32 and a 64 bit version something like what Ableton did with Live.
Martin C 9:17 AM 21 April 2013
We have plans to do a 64 bit version at some point, but we wanted to release a 32 bit version as soon as possible. We wanted to give existing ITCH customers some long needed feature improvements and additions, as well as provide an upgrade path to our Serato DJ Intro customers.

This means keeping our existing ITCH customers happy as well as introducing some income via the upgrade price for Serato DJ Intro customers which helps us fund development and testing resources, so we can do those big things we really want to get done properly, like reducing memory usage and making a 64 bit version of our DJ software.
dj-nice 2:47 PM 21 April 2013
sorry, till Itch 2.0 there was not a real RAM problem. Instead of explain the problems with 32 bit you should look, what have you done in Itch 2.2.2.

I had never a RAM problem witch Itch 1.x

Seems the database is now cached in RAM, cause with Itch 2.2.2 / SDJ, there is no real delay while open or close big crates. (takes for me up to 4-5 seconds in older versions) So you should ask yourself: hey what did we wrong this time as we "optimize" our database with Itch 2.0 and in 2.2.2????

It is nearly unbeliable, that
Itch 1.7 use at startup only 640 MB Ram
Itch 2.1 takes 770 MB Ram
Itch 2.2 takes 840 MB Ram
Itch 2.2.2 takex 1050 MB RAM

....tested with my large Database

it will grow up at work an even crash at 1.2 GB RAM!

SO DONT EXPLAIN THIS PROBLEMS WITH 32BIT...CHECK YOUR BUGS in Itch 2.0 and 2.2.2.
dj-nice 5:33 PM 21 April 2013
oh, forgit RAM consumption Sertao DJ is more or equal to Itch 2.2.2 and there is no delay while open close crates, too.

I bet, there is an equal code platform in database handling
DJNitro12 1:32 PM 22 April 2013
Can I ask a question, what do you guys consider a large database? I have roughly 60,000 mp3's and 12,000 videos and I've never had a problem. It there a point where I need to start trimming down my selection?
Certified Quality Entertainment 1:42 PM 22 April 2013
I consider that pretty large. I only have around 18,000 MP3s...i think that is "average"
nik39 4:28 PM 22 April 2013
It's dependent on:

- How many crates you have
- How many tracks each of these crates have

I also find it weird, that Serato didn't take the opportunity to implement a 64Bit app when they started working on Serato DJ.

This issue has been brought up years (!) ago and it has not been assigned the needed priority unfortunately. Since SL 2.0 the number of possible crates has been decreasing. It's a bit better on the Mac, than on the PC.

Plus right now it does not look like this is explicitly a "main" memory issue. You can see that SL (on the PC) does not nearly hit the 2GB app limit, but still it reports "a memory issue". So maybe something else is broken.
Martin C 7:32 AM 23 April 2013
Hey dj-nice,

I don't mean to come off like I am making up reasons for why it is like this. I am doing my best to explain what I know (from a non developer point of view) from what information I have been told by our developers.

The information you have raised is quite interesting indeed.

Quote:
Seems the database is now cached in RAM, cause with Itch 2.2.2 / SDJ, there is no real delay while open or close big crates. (takes for me up to 4-5 seconds in older versions) So you should ask yourself: hey what did we wrong this time as we "optimize" our database with Itch 2.0 and in 2.2.2????


The optimizations I have been informed of so far, have been mainly surrounding increased loading speeds of libraries.

Whats interesting is your tests, and perhaps the implied idea, that as a result of increasing the loading time, it has the further reduced the file limit that software can actually load.

Can you confirm, and I apologize if you have answered this question before, but can you load a larger library (amount of files) in ITCH 1.7 when compared to ITCH 2.2.2?

Yet, when we are talking about a smaller library, would you agree that the loading time has increased in ITCH 2.2.2?
dj-nice 8:54 AM 23 April 2013
Hi Martin,
cause englich is not my mother language, im not shure, if i have understood correct.

The loading time with my large library has decreased in ITCH 2.2.2. / SDJ, compared to Itch 1.7

But did you remember:
The first Itch versions 2.0.1/2.1 were really buggy. There are memory (RAM) problems while build up an new Database V2 from a large crate strukture. I think, this was also fixed in the final Itch version
DJ Easy Eddie 10:02 PM 23 April 2013
Personally I cant use itch > ver 2.0 including Serato DJ in offline mode. Scratchlive in offline mode does not work either. They all crash and Itch 1.7 is the only one that will load my library and play without a problem.
Kittmaster 1:38 AM 24 April 2013
I have to use version 1.5 to get my library to load.......with the V7's attached, I'm sitting right at 1.01Gb of memory, so inching real close to the peak memory.....it's scary.

You HAVE TO REMEMBER.....versions like 1.5 have MINIMAL features compared to the newer feature rich 2.2.2 and DJ which burn up more memory space in RAM.

It appears to be a limitation of x32.....so for the love of god.....make a x64 version......we have GBs of memory and you insist on clinging to x32 for what reason exactly???? If your team can't do it, maybe you need to hire a contractor that can convert it for you.

This isn't some minor little bug, it is now wide spread.....so in regards to the trinity: support, features, maintenance.....it converts to maintenance/stability, everything else becomes zero importance if the app crashes like it does......250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......stop all your doing and fix it....I do believe the tool chains all have a migration path for x32 to x64.....I suggest someone take a serious look at it and release a x64 beta.

I understand that profits need to be made.....but right now......you not only have one black eye, you have two black eyes and a busted nose........you have no idea how bad this affects us on the road....if you did, this would have been fixed a year ago, I refuse to believe otherwise.

But hey, we're only your customers, stay the course.
Martin C 10:24 AM 24 April 2013
Hey Kittmaster,

Quote:
It appears to be a limitation of x32.....so for the love of god.....make a x64 version......we have GBs of memory and you insist on clinging to x32 for what reason exactly????


As dj-nice has pointed out (and yourself mentioned that extra features have been added) that it isn't just straight up causes by the limitation of 32 bit, however I do believe its that a 64 bit is potentially a solution to many of our problems. Ideally, first and foremost, the overall memory usage could be decreased, and then a 64 bit version would certainly open up the doors for larger libraries.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......stop all your doing and fix it


I agree with you here, but we can't stop the whole of development in its tracks completely to do it Im afraid. As I said, if you focus too much on any one of these things, we lose balance.

Quote:
you have no idea how bad this affects us on the road....if you did, this would have been fixed a year ago,


You are entitled to your opinions Kittmaster, but as a DJ and technical support person, I understand the seriousness, and I understand how bad it can be. I also understand how can affect the reputation of the software, I see it day in and day out.

Its not just as simple as dropping every plan we have devote every developer we have to this. We want to do this right and do this smart. Rushing to put a band aid over the issue can lead to wrong solutions.

There isn't much more I can say without sounding like a broken record. Im sorry this affects you all, the only suggestion I have at this point is to reduce or reorganize your library. If there is any way you can reduce the length of your file paths, or reduce the amount of files/crates, and as a result, you can reduce how big the database is.

If the database V2 file is smaller, the chances of being out of memory decrease greatly.

If you wish for us to help, we can do that, just make a separate help request so we can focus on your setup individually.

Thanks :)
beisi 12:07 PM 24 April 2013
Why is it that I can use Traktor with an equally large library and it doesn't crash? it is also 32 bit right? also integrates with itunes? has equal or more functionality to load up in memory?

It seems to me there something fundamentally flawed about the way that SDJ/Itch loads music libraries into memory and wasn't designed to scale. Sounds like legacy Itch code was also used in SDJ and to fix it would require a major overhaul. This overhaul would disrupt development on the things that bring about the most Serato revenue the quickest (is a business after all) and as such is out of the question for the coming 18 months at least.
Colemang70 4:05 PM 24 April 2013
I'm building a single crate with 60,000 songs in it all of the files are located in one folder on my second hard drive. Currently the i can see all 60K songs, the database is 30+ mb in size and growing as I start analyze the files, and windows 8 with serato running is using 825MB of ram.

My Laptop is Asus G75VW with:
128gb SSD
750gb HSSD
24gb of ram
Windows 8 OS
Serato DJ only
NS7, NS6,DDJ-SX

This will determine if I'm moving to Traktor or Virtual DJ until serato can get this database issue fixed because my main music library is a 3TB ext hdd running on USB 3.0 port and I can pull up a request for customer in fear of it crashing the software.

I understand it best to analyze before a show but you get those request at the show that you have analyze and if you pushing the limits on ram one bad or large file with crash Serato when you try to load/add to database.

v/r
colemang70
pdidy 4:14 PM 24 April 2013
In other words gentlemen, "time for plan B".......yall know like......alternative, options, fixes.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......
WOW, thats definitely not normal were im from......I think some of you guys have an undiagnosed file hording addiction.....
Kittmaster 1:28 AM 25 April 2013
Quote:
In other words gentlemen, "time for plan B".......yall know like......alternative, options, fixes.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......
WOW, thats definitely not normal were im from......I think some of you guys have an undiagnosed file hording addiction.....


Well you have to realize that there are series that are scratch tracks, acapella tracks, music tracks, sample tracks, short cutz tracks, video tracks......and each and every one of those are tagged in meta and have to be accounted for by the software, you may never play those tracks (but many want to have them on hand....because really....you just never know), but understand that people that are subscribed to multiple cd pools, ultimix, funkymix, mastermix, mixshow ingredients......those series have thousands of tracks, plus all the music collection cds, regular tracks, country, rock, top40.....now many DJ's are moving to video and that can span 10000 or better from the the same series providers...........all have to be counted and held......so ramming them all in a single folder isn't going to work to "minimize" the database for the paths and file names for the crate structure.

As for alternatives, NI doesn't handle V7 or NS7, Virtual DJ crashes often (7.05) with V7 and the platter response is substandard to Serato, what's left? Cue.....that is VDJ skinned.....Torq > garbage with V7, latest version is just not good IMO.

So right now......there is no plan B, it's getting plan A in order one would think.
Ragman 3:22 AM 25 April 2013
Quote:
In other words gentlemen, "time for plan B".......yall know like......alternative, options, fixes.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......
WOW, thats definitely not normal were im from......I think some of you guys have an undiagnosed file hording addiction.....

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe quarter million songs in a library is becoming the norm.

10,000 is huge amount if you think about it. 250,000 is just plain ginormace.
pdidy 3:49 AM 25 April 2013
Quote:
So right now......there is no plan B, it's getting plan A in order one would think.

I have a hard time believing even you believe that...lol
dj-nice 9:23 AM 25 April 2013
dont think about 250K Tracks......SDJ has still memory problems with 10% of that, if you had build or grown up large crate struktures.
LJ_WOOLSEY 9:26 AM 25 April 2013
Ya i agree i can have these memory issues with 12,000 files! All depends. Some people can have loads of files some hardly any.

My mac struggles with 50,000 audio/video.

Only way itch and sdj will open is to make sure i closer EVERY single subcrate is closed when i shut down.
Kittmaster 1:03 PM 25 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
In other words gentlemen, "time for plan B".......yall know like......alternative, options, fixes.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......
WOW, thats definitely not normal were im from......I think some of you guys have an undiagnosed file hording addiction.....

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe quarter million songs in a library is becoming the norm.

10,000 is huge amount if you think about it. 250,000 is just plain ginormace.


Well that is on you, last check, I have properly indexed and cataloged 84073 active songs in my library. I have another drive that has all my ethnic tracks that I have yet to index and catalog.

I DJ that I work with has over 130K verified tracks.

Do the math, 250K is more than possible in our near futures (2 years maybe), even if it you refuse to believe it.
Kittmaster 1:04 PM 25 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
So right now......there is no plan B, it's getting plan A in order one would think.

I have a hard time believing even you believe that...lol


Of course I have a plan B, I prefer to have Plan A work first since its the most elegant and not requiring dual hardware to deal with it all.
Ragman 5:25 PM 25 April 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In other words gentlemen, "time for plan B".......yall know like......alternative, options, fixes.

Quote:
250K song libraries are becoming the norm whether anyone agrees with that or not.......
WOW, thats definitely not normal were im from......I think some of you guys have an undiagnosed file hording addiction.....

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe quarter million songs in a library is becoming the norm.

10,000 is huge amount if you think about it. 250,000 is just plain ginormace.


Well that is on you, last check, I have properly indexed and cataloged 84073 active songs in my library. I have another drive that has all my ethnic tracks that I have yet to index and catalog.

I DJ that I work with has over 130K verified tracks.

Do the math, 250K is more than possible in our near futures (2 years maybe), even if it you refuse to believe it.

Oh I have no doubt you and many DJs have a library that large. I'm not questioning that. It's just not the norm right now. That's a fvckin' huge library. Literally they're are some mp3 DJ pools out there that doesn't even come close to that amount. So I highly doubt the average DJ own and carry around a quarter million tracks. Just trying to get you to think about what you said.
Certified Quality Entertainment 5:33 PM 25 April 2013
I have 17,000 tracks which Im sure has a ton of dupes and nonsense that I will never ever ever play. I think that's probably the average right now. Hell, I might even be on the low end. With that said, I haven't had any issues at all with SDJ or my SX. Loads itunes and playlists within 10 seconds of starting the program.
phatbob 6:04 PM 25 April 2013
I have two concurrent views on this:

There clearly are a lot of DJs with massive libraries, and Serato's software should be able to cope with that.

but...

Anyone with a library approaching or above 100k tracks should spend more time on library management and less time downloading any old shit they can find.
Ragman 7:27 PM 25 April 2013
co-sign...

Totally agree that the software should support the size and if it does not, Serato should at least publish a max size (based on the number of items and/or database size) which they're software can safely function.
DJ Easy Eddie 8:14 PM 25 April 2013
An option to select which folders or playlists to load may also alleviate the problem
dj-nice 8:36 PM 25 April 2013
or a field to mark your favorite crates, which should be cached. This should be reduce the RAM consumption dramatically
Kittmaster 1:02 AM 26 April 2013
Quote:
co-sign...

Totally agree that the software should support the size and if it does not, Serato should at least publish a max size (based on the number of items and/or database size) which they're software can safely function.


This is a good point, but early on....I do recall it said somewhere (the manual I think) you can have "unlimited" amount of songs in your library.....until people started running into the RAM limitation. If it was published originally you can have up to say......50K songs, then anyone with more than that would have nothing to complain about, but in fact, it was sold as no limitations until a lot of us found them......I'm sure/know it wasn't intentional, but when you advertise a software to do something, and then it doesn't, and then it isn't fixed.....well you know the rest of that movie.

The problem is the limitations of where it really falls apart is unknown since it has a lot of variables to how it crashes....path lengths, file name size, etc etc..all contribute to where and when the limitation occurs....so its hard for them to give a "do this and all is right with the world" suggestion.

<continues to hope for resolution>
Ragman 4:40 AM 26 April 2013
I carry about 10,000 tracks and if during that rare occasion i'm asked for something that's not on my laptop, I have an ftp server at home with my entire collection that I can access from my MiFi (or WiFi if it's freely available) and just download the track if I have it at home. I set this up back in 2011 and it's been a big help.
Kittmaster 3:30 PM 26 April 2013
Quote:
I carry about 10,000 tracks and if during that rare occasion i'm asked for something that's not on my laptop, I have an ftp server at home with my entire collection that I can access from my MiFi (or WiFi if it's freely available) and just download the track if I have it at home. I set this up back in 2011 and it's been a big help.


That is a great idea!.......Right up until the point you work in a building like the Biltmore in Providence RI where the function halls are 4 floors UNDERGROUND and you have zero to no signal via cellular or otherwise. Yes, I'm sure they have free wi-fi, but still leaves the risk and assumption that you will have ACCESS to that system....for my company, standalone is the only way we operate. If we don't have something at the gig when asked, I'll try to use my tethered phone to get it accordingly if permitted, but ultimately I run my show as if I'm an island...I want it all there and with me....it's no longer where we are lugging vinyl around and people "understand" that you can only have so much....its digital, and the cost is only HD space.....so no one wants to hear "I forgot to bring it" or "I can't access the internet to download it" in the digital age......understandably so.

If your a DJ that has only 10K songs, great, if that works for you. But since my company subscribes to 8 different pools which is very costly per month, we have hundreds of audio and video tracks rolling in each month.....and it adds up quick.....I'm not going to leave anything on the table by saying that I left it at home, or have to shuffle 4 different drives on site to use the ones I want...every DJ is different, I'm the one that brings it all......if that doesn't jive or you think it is a library management issue, well, anything that you have to say will not change me or my workflow, this is how we roll, we bring it all....I can't tell you how many gigs I've been asked for completely random stuff.......and I had it on some obscure remix label, or misc folder that I knew someday may get asked for and then played it....many times complemented on being 100% prepared....if that isn't something you relish as a DJ, well, I feel sorry for your clients. Every DJ does what they feel is best for them and their clients, how you handle it is up to you and your success will be determined by those actions.

So to each their own and hoping things get fixed accordingly.
maviccf 9:36 PM 27 April 2013
..
a747eagle 4:23 AM 1 May 2013
I am a "hobby" DJ who recently spent over $1,000 on a Pioneer's DDJ-SX with the intention to branch out professionally. I had played around on a Numark Mixtrack Pro for under $200 with Virtual DJ. When I first switched to Serato I was not aware it wouldn't work on Windows Vista. I had to completely upgrade to Windows 7. Since switching over to Serato, my system in unpredictable; I never know when it's going to crash. I use iTunes and have just under 20,000 song titles (many of which are not used for DJ'ing - such as audio books). With a large data base of music, it has been easier to allow iTunes to manage my folders and playlists (both for ease of use, time management, and to use iTunes as a primary source of portable music).

I started a previous thread on how to solve the crashing and it was suggested that I make two separate iTune libraries, one for DJ and one for "other". The problem, which has been stated before, is doing a gig where someone requests music and it is located on another "library". This would defeat the purpose of having a wide range of music to choose from. Switiching libraries or updating duplicate data files cuts into my time to find good music and hone my craft.

Martin C, I have read numerous posts where you can't talk more about the issue because you are not a developer. That is understandable. But this thread started over five months ago and it sounds like these are issues that have plagued past Serato software programs. There has been nothing posted by the developers who can answer the questions we ask. When will a developer post on this forum?

I understand the dynamics of trying to balance needs. However, when there is a major glitch in a system, a company shouldn't continue to put out more of the same products until that glitch is fixed. Take the Boeing 787 for example. The lithium batteries caught fire, production was shut down, and Boeing focused on fixing the problem. Production wasn't allowed to continue until that problem was fixed. Car manufacturers recall vehicles when they don't work properly.

Which brings me to the reason behind this post. If we, our fellow DJ's who have purchased a product that doesn't work and in searching for solutions are told that "we are working on this issue, but it is more important for x y z first," we need to go to the next level. We need to file a complaint with the better business bureau. www.bbb.org I am sure there are other entities out there that can also be advocates for us, but I have always had luck with BBB.

I am grateful for Serato to respond to issues on forums like this. I am grateful for emails I have received from Serato addressing questions and concerns. It was this customer service in the first place that sold me on their product. Unfortunately, a known crashing program is a HUGE issue and needs to take priority over everything else. As mentioned before, I never had this issue with a cheaper controller or program. When I upgraded to a "professional" system, I expect it to operate as such. Needless to say, I am disappointed in the product and only hope that Serato can find a fix. Otherwise, I will have to return my Pioneer controller with Searto picking up the tab for my time and expenses.
a747eagle 4:29 AM 1 May 2013
My mistake. Serato is a New Zealand business. I will look into filing complaints there.
phatbob 6:56 AM 1 May 2013
Quote:
My mistake. Serato is a New Zealand business. I will look into filing complaints there.


You know everyone can see your forum-posted help requests right?

YOU don't have this 'known issue'.

Other users might have some grounds for complaint over it. You certainly don't, with your circa-20k files.

And my guess would be that any third party, before taking any claim seriously, would like to see evidence that you have personally:

A. Suffered from the known issue (you have not)

B. Had cause to seek help from the company in question amount that issue (you have not)

C. Had not, during your latest interaction with the company, within the last month said:
Quote:
Thanks for an incredible product and stellar customer service!


Don't you think?

Getting shirty because you aren't serious enough about DJing to have a second iTunes library without your damn podcasts in it strikes me as rather histrionic.
DJ Quartz 12:01 PM 1 May 2013
I'll be honest this is why I switched to a Macbook Pro.

No matter what I did with Windows it just never ran properly.
DJ Easy Eddie 12:10 PM 1 May 2013
Was excited by the release of SDJ 1.2 for the NS7 but alas ! Same old same old. It crashes at start up and I have slightly north of 30K files.
DJ Quartz 12:19 PM 1 May 2013
The only way I could get around this on Windows was to make custom database folders and manually rename before launching the application.
Ragman 2:07 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
I'll be honest this is why I switched to a Macbook Pro.

No matter what I did with Windows it just never ran properly.

I agree, although in my studio I converted a Mac Mini to a Win7 machine and itch runs great.
DJNitro12 3:42 PM 1 May 2013
Its not a pc Mac issue. Trust me, my laptop would smash a Mac in performance and reliability. Its the users. I know things that maybe the average user doesn't. But it's also what I do for a living. For example, Capt Lawsuit up there said he upgraded from Vista to Win 7. That tells me his laptop is at least 2 yrs old, more than likely an i3 processor, with 4gb of ram. He is probably running more bloatware than he realizes off that pirated upgrade of Windows. ......and then they complain about it not working right. I have over 80,000 sings and roughly over 8,000 videos in my library and it never crashed.
DJ Easy Eddie 6:17 PM 1 May 2013
Unless someone gives me a more technical explanation I refuse to believe its because I dont use a MAC. I mean its a quad core I7 with 8G of RAM. The very same hardware will load my Library and run fine using ITCH 1.7. I do not consider myself an average user because I have actually developed software for various platforms in the past. I however must admit I spend over 90% of my time on Linux not Windows and may have lost some of my windows chops gradually. I have tried most of the guides and articles to optimize my PC and failed.
DJNitro12 6:30 PM 1 May 2013
Eddie, there are a lot of factors to consider. Everything has to work together to get performance. For instance, you use a quad core I7 w 8gb of ram. Since Serato is 32 bit you can only use 4 of the 8 to process it. It could be something as little as your hard drive spinning at 5,400 instead of 7,200 rpm. More than likely in all computers I've worked on for DJ's, it's your processes. Things running on your computer you didn't even know were running. Check out www.Blackviper.com and try to eliminate as much as possible. Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay
Papa Midnight 7:11 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
It could be something as little as your hard drive spinning at 5,400 instead of 7,200 rpm.

Quote:
Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay

I'm sorry but I can't help myself on this one: Bullshit.
A 5400 RPM HDD is the reason why Serato DJ crashes on a Windows PC with a large library? Seriously?

Quote:
For instance, you use a quad core I7 w 8gb of ram. Since Serato is 32 bit you can only use 4 of the 8 to process it.

Yes and no. Address Windowing Extensions renders this moot. However, this is not applicable as Serato DJ and ITCH crash before even reaching 2 GB. If you have a large library, they will crash. It's that simple.

Quote:
Unless someone gives me a more technical explanation I refuse to believe its because I dont use a MAC.

There is none applicable to the situation. Most persons say to get a Mac as it's just easier for them to drop the $1500 and get a MacBook Pro than take the time to setup and maintain a proper windows machine for $500 less.

Admittedly, Serato products tend to run better on Mac OS X, but evidence has been provided for years that this is more the fault of Serato than the Operating System it is running on - the one exception being Whitelabel.net files and Windows 7.
DJNitro12 7:19 PM 1 May 2013
Papa Midnight, I hate to break it to you but drive speed it very important. Can it be a lone factor, yes. Is it likely, no. But hey what do I know, oh wait I have my MCSE, do you?
DJNitro12 7:22 PM 1 May 2013
Oh and I forgot, to use Addressing Windows Extension, the application must have "lock pages in memory" added to the user's right set by the admin. Hey thanks for playing big boy, but let me handle the technical stuff, you just sit there and look pretty.
Papa Midnight 7:32 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Papa Midnight, I hate to break it to you but drive speed it very important. Can it be a lone factor, yes. Is it likely, no. But hey what do I know, oh wait I have my MCSE, do you?

You know, I was going to address this, and was in the process of doing so, but then you posted this...

Quote:
[...] user's right set by the admin

...so... you mean the administrative single user (aside from system accounts) that every single owner of a PC is?

Head -> Desk

Exception Error

logic_error
invalid_argument

Quote:
Hey thanks for playing big boy, but let me handle the technical stuff, you just sit there and look pretty.

Penis envy is an amazing thing it seems... no where near as amazing as the ego's need for it to stroke itself, but amazing none the less.

Puns fully intended.

Now let those of us who are truly trying to help others solve their issues (and not the egotistical ones related to penis envy - you'll have to seek outside help on that yourself) actually carry on a conversation and move along.
DJNitro12 7:40 PM 1 May 2013
You were in the process of addressing what? Your certifications? I'll give you a minute to google some.... oh and just because someone owns the computer doesn't mean they give themselves admin rights. Not every user has Admin rights dumbass. And even if they are the admin, how many know how to set the AWE let alone any user rights! It's people like you that screw it up for everyone. But hey what do you expect from a guy that let's his vinyl sit out in the sun.... "Time to use INT mode" dumbass.
beisi 7:50 PM 1 May 2013
sighhhhhhhhh.. crash crash crash, either crashes immediately on startup or after a minute or so when I try to load a track

my vci is still a farking paperweight >:(

gonna go write another support request... so goddam disappointed :/

i've said it before but given my frustration I feel it is worth saying again:
* Traktor has equal or more functionality, is also 32 bit, also integrates with itunes and doesn't crash with the same sodding library!

Windows: Windows 7 Home Premium Edition (64-bit) Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Memory (RAM): 8100 MB
CPU Info: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2630QM CPU @ 2.00GHz
CPU Speed: 2003.7 MHz
Hard Disks: C: 119.1GB (SSD) | D: 698.6GB (7200rpm)

current itunes folder on d: is 240gig
of that, music is 112gig around 16000 tracks
0 crates, I don't use the Serato folder structure at all
SDJ on the ssd and music library on the 7200rpm
Papa Midnight 7:51 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay

Quote:
SDJ on the ssd and music library on the 7200rpm


Again, please continue to stroke your own ego.
DJNitro12 7:53 PM 1 May 2013
Scooter, did you disabled your onboard audio?
DJNitro12 7:54 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay

Quote:
SDJ on the ssd and music library on the 7200rpm


Again, please continue to stroke your own ego.



WTF are you blabbing about now?
Papa Midnight 7:56 PM 1 May 2013
Wasn't that your own logic? That it had to be on an SSD and the music on a 7200rpm drive?

Quote:
It could be something as little as your hard drive spinning at 5,400 instead of 7,200 rpm. [...] Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay


Explain away, Mr. Wizard.
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:57 PM 1 May 2013
sorry but i stripped my windows install down to bare bones and turned everything off that is not needed, system running at nothing! open itch 1.2gb ram boom crash! it is just serato are crap at making software and this is why they have all these bugs. VDJ and traktor are 32bit have way more features and options and are bigger file size programs but do not suffer from these issues. only serato do. there is something really fucked up in there code but no one there has the skill to fix it. shame but the truth!! it does work better on the mac side! so maybe if you can install hackintosh on your pc it will then work.
DJNitro12 8:22 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Wasn't that your own logic? That it had to be on an SSD and the music on a 7200rpm drive?

Quote:
It could be something as little as your hard drive spinning at 5,400 instead of 7,200 rpm. [...] Make sure your HD's are at minimun 7,200rpm and if your laptop can hold two hard drives, install a 128gb SSD drive with your OS on it and music on a 7,200rpm in the second bay


Explain away, Mr. Wizard.



I'll try to talk slow and not use big words and where available, I'll try to post pictures to make it easy for you.

First let me say I only speak to PC users. Mac users are on your own. Listen, I know maybe 8 people in real life from here. These people posting stuff I don't know them let alone their systems. Without seeing the computer in person, I have to be very general in what I say. As far as the HD's 5,400 vs 7,200, speed is everything. Would you rather pull a 1 gig video file from an HD running at 5,400 or 7,200 rpm. If speed wasn't a factor, no one would waste money on SSD drives except for security. Computers are a pain in the ass. I do IT security and server maintenance for one of, if not the biggest hospital in the world. We just ordered 2,000 laptops for nurse's stations and carts, all identicle but if you turn them all on at the same time, they have different load times. Just because some one has an i7 over an i3 doesn't make it better. I know some 3rd gen i3's tuned right will blow away a 1st or 2nd i7's. Quad core, dual core. Everyone's computer is different. I never claimed to have the answers, but what I can claim is that if I had the computers in front of me, I could get them running flawlessly. I would almost bet my all my cars that the services and onboard soundcards on their computers are the problem. That being said, I give very vague answers like 5,400 vs 7,200 rpm HD's because someone running a 3rd Gen i7 isn't going to have the same throughput as someone running an Intel Celeron 1.1 (God forbid someone is using one of those) and I don't know what every person uses.
DJ Easy Eddie 8:24 PM 1 May 2013
As for my case its obviously not the hardware. I really doubt it is my windows settings because I have checked them several times and NOTEWORTHY , the same settings run ITCH 1.7 without a problem (go figure). It obviously does not mean anything but I also once had an MCSE NT track in 2000 (whatever that means). Whatever happened to trace points, logs, debug mode and decent exception handling better than this cluster F&^$ when I open these applications. I feel like I should be paid for this headache not me paying for it !
DJNitro12 8:29 PM 1 May 2013
I agree Eddie, they need a Linux version. Did you shut off non-essential services? I mean even setting them to "disable" and not "manual"?
DJNitro12 8:32 PM 1 May 2013
Also let me say this, I've never used Itch. I only use Scratch Live and I use Serato DJ in case my TTM57 should quit.
DJ Easy Eddie 8:34 PM 1 May 2013
Yes I disabled them. The URL you provided was helpful and I identified afew that were still running. It is frustrating for me but people running this successfully on similar hardware/OS keeps me trying.
DJNitro12 8:37 PM 1 May 2013
Unfortunately it's probably just one thing that is so simple, people over look it. Best of luck. If I think of anything, I'll drop you a message
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:39 PM 1 May 2013
you can shut down everything but if sdj/itch uses 1.2gb ram it crashes end of!! you have to get your crates/playlists down to only a few and get the amount of tracks down.

for some reason ssl can load a massive! library compared to itch and sdj. But itch below 1.7 seems to also load a bigger library than SDJ.

its just seratos programming skillz.

But i do hope you find a way to get it working.

also i found making sure ALL subcrates were closed made it open better.
Papa Midnight 9:03 PM 1 May 2013
So let's see...
Quote:
I'll try to talk slow and not use big words and where available, I'll try to post pictures to make it easy for you.

Condescending
An Egotist
And a severe case of penis envy, so much to the point he has to broadcast his possibly non-existent MCSE cert which has him working as a Sys Admin at a possibly non-existent job at what is possibly one of the world's largest non-existent hospitals...

Well, if it makes you feel better bragging anonymously to a random person on the internet, more power to you. Don't let me rain on your parade. Anywho, thanks for browsing my twitter pictures. Sometimes, when you do outdoor events in the summer during a heat wave, vinyl tends to get hot and warp. Shit happens. It's control vinyl. New one was all of $12. You clearly felt the need to point it out, though, which shows me just how insecure you are Mr. I-Have-An-MCSE-And-Work-At-A-Hospital.

Classic Narcissist.

Quote:
you can shut down everything but if sdj/itch uses 1.2gb ram it crashes end of!!

We've made this point for years, WOOLSEY. It's definitely a problem with the way the program is written for Windows.
beisi 9:09 PM 1 May 2013
man i'm at the end of my tether with this thing :/
serato.com

i've tried everything I can think of including:
- optimizing for latency/ shutting down services/disabling drivers
- removing virtual midi devices
- freeing up HD space

question to others here, how big is your library when it has been working for you?
itunes folder size? how many tracks? how much of the itunes library is actually music vs podcasts/vides/ios apps?

my situation doesn't seem to reconcile with the test results that Serato has been mentioning:

"50000 tracks - 0 crates
DJ 1.0 -
offline ok -> offline play ok -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 -
offline ok -> offline play ok -> click manage auth ok -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.

125000 tracks - 0 crates
DJ 1.0 -
offline ok -> offline play (crash) -> online play ok -> shutdown ok.
DJ 1.1 -
offline (crash)"

Question to Martin C/Serato, can you please be more specific regarding upper limits of itunes library size, is it solely related to number of itunes "music" tracks or is it the overal size of the itunes folder in terms of gigs?




this is torture, playing for a couple of minutes with my lovely looking controller for a minute or two and then BANG crash....... :/
dj-nice 9:09 PM 1 May 2013
@ all people who think a 7200 rpm hd could solve the memory problem:
please, do not try to give tips, if you don't know what we are talking about.
DJNitro12 9:14 PM 1 May 2013
Actually it was Facebook, not twitter. And the only reason I did that was that apparently your business doesn't make enough money to keep your website going. And I wasn't bragging, just stating a fact so that the forum members can decide whether they would like to listen to you or myself. I used the hospital as an example of turning on several identical computers on at the same time and get different results..... and what is this obsession with my penis? That's twice you've mention it.....
DJNitro12 9:17 PM 1 May 2013
And DJ Nice, if you are using a slower processor and pulling huge video files from a second drive, the RPM can make a difference. It won't make a difference whether the program works or not, only how well. If you decide to change tracks with just a couple of seconds left in the playing track, you need all the speed you can. Also it has nothing really to do with MP3's as much as MP4, VOB's etc
Ragman 9:56 PM 1 May 2013
The sad part about all of this is that I purchased a used Dual-core mac book pro with a 5400rpm 500 hdd and 4gb RAM. Itch runs flawlessly on that. Yet realistically this was supposed to have been a downgrade from the HP I owned that gave me all sorts of problems with Itch. It had an i7, 7600rpm 500 hdd, and 8gb RAM on a tweaked win7. So sh!t maybe it is some issues in the code. I still love Itch way better than Traktor or VDJ though. Yet I can really sympathize with those pc DJs who are having a rough time with Itch. I went a year before I decided to flip over to the MBP because that HP was pretty dam expensive. Now it belongs to my son who is in college and loving it.
DJ Easy Eddie 10:59 PM 1 May 2013
I am not an expert but there is alot more than RPM's to storage performance and I have seen cases where 15K drives did better than SSD's. There are factors like platters, density that will affect a disk. The nature of the I/O is also important sequential/random and read/write not to mention the filesystem. There are cases (Sequential i/O) where the difference in IOP's between 7200 and 5400RPM is almost negligible due to density of 5400RPM disk.
DJNitro12 11:04 PM 1 May 2013
True but would I rather have a 15,000 rpm over an ssd? Simple answer no. Even if it is faster than an ssd, it doesn't out weigh the other benefits of the ssd. Power consumption on a 15k is enormous. Also ssd's have no moving parts so if you're laptop is dropped, you're less likely to lose the hd. And a platter drive, regardless of speed, you damage the platter, bye bye data.
Ragman 11:10 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
The sad part about all of this is that I purchased a used Dual-core mac book pro with a 5400rpm 500 hdd and 4gb RAM. Itch runs flawlessly on that. Yet realistically this was supposed to have been a downgrade from the HP I owned that gave me all sorts of problems with Itch. It had an i7, 7600rpm 500 hdd, and 8gb RAM on a tweaked win7. So sh!t maybe it is some issues in the code. I still love Itch way better than Traktor or VDJ though. Yet I can really sympathize with those pc DJs who are having a rough time with Itch. I went a year before I decided to flip over to the MBP because that HP was pretty dam expensive. Now it belongs to my son who is in college and loving it.

CORRECTION= 7200RPM
Papa Midnight 11:11 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
@ all people who think a 7200 rpm hd could solve the memory problem:
please, do not try to give tips, if you don't know what we are talking about.

The prosecution rest.
DJNitro12 11:16 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
@ all people who think a 7200 rpm hd could solve the memory problem:
please, do not try to give tips, if you don't know what we are talking about.

The prosecution rest.


Yes, everyone should listen to the Germans, they always know what's best..... Oh wait WW II. Nevermind
phatbob 11:20 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Yes, everyone should listen to the Germans, they always know what's best..... Oh wait WW II. Nevermind


You thought that was an acceptable thing to write? For real?

IBTL.
Papa Midnight 11:21 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, everyone should listen to the Germans, they always know what's best..... Oh wait WW II. Nevermind


You thought that was an acceptable thing to write? For real?

IBTL.

Not to mention he thinks I'm actually German... not that it matters if I am or not...
hold on a sec...
DJNitro12 11:21 PM 1 May 2013
Sure did.
Papa Midnight 11:21 PM 1 May 2013
dig away, Nitro.

media.tumblr.com
DJNitro12 11:23 PM 1 May 2013
DJ PM you are the dumbest person on here. Can you tell me where I said you were German? Or maybe the quote you used was made from a man from Germany.
DJNitro12 11:25 PM 1 May 2013
Here you go DJ PM swagsoldseparately.com
Papa Midnight 11:26 PM 1 May 2013
Not even worth my time to respond to...
DJNitro12 11:27 PM 1 May 2013
Thank God, he's gonna shut up now
phatbob 11:27 PM 1 May 2013
Quote:
Not even worth my time to respond to...


Amen.
DJNitro12 11:31 PM 1 May 2013
So anyway if any person had any questions, feel free to drop me a message.
phatbob 11:36 PM 1 May 2013
I have one: Why do you think it's ok to make casually xenophobic jokes?
DJNitro12 11:42 PM 1 May 2013
They aren't xenophobic jokes. I lived in Germany. If I could be there right now, I would sitting in a restaurant somewhere essen ein Schnitzel und ein Bier. I have no fear of Germans
Eru G 1:50 AM 2 May 2013
Dudes, is all this necessary?

If you insist on using the forum then stick to the topic, otherwise I would suggest you go somewhere else.
DJNitro12 2:10 AM 2 May 2013
Yeah he's right. I apologize to the forum members.
Martin C 4:47 AM 2 May 2013
Please chill out guys.

Hey ScooterAdam:

Quote:
Question to Martin C/Serato, can you please be more specific regarding upper limits of itunes library size, is it solely related to number of itunes "music" tracks or is it the overal size of the itunes folder in terms of gigs?



Sorry, but I dont have anything more accurate to give you. We are working on trying to get more accurate data, but as you can imagine the list of variables to take into consideration are endless:

- Crate amount
- File amount
- File sizes
- File types
- File location length
- iTunes being used (iTunes managing your music or not?)
- External or internal drives
prizo 5:41 AM 2 May 2013
Stick to the topic at hand people. For a macbook running i5 2.4ghz 8gb ram 250 ssd for os x and 1tb 7200 hhd internal for music...


What is the magic number for crates / files in sdj?

I am currently at 25000 songs with roughly 150 crates. Havent played with sdj software yet.


*** Does the amount of subcrates in a crate effect memory usage (aka crashing)? In other words, should i break up subcrates in more crates or have more subcrates under one crate?

Does the level of subcrate usage cause issues? (ex: 2 subcrates in a crate, each subcrate has 4 subcrates, each of those subcrates have numerous subcrates, etc)
Martin C 6:45 AM 2 May 2013
Quote:
Does the amount of subcrates in a crate effect memory usage (aka crashing)? In other words, should i break up subcrates in more crates or have more subcrates under one crate?

Does the level of subcrate usage cause issues? (ex: 2 subcrates in a crate, each subcrate has 4 subcrates, each of those subcrates have numerous subcrates, etc)



Anything you can do to reduce the number of crates/subcrates overall is the best thing you can you do. Whether you have some subcrates within a parent crate, or subcrates within subcrates, is less important I think.
beisi 6:49 AM 2 May 2013
Quote:
Please chill out guys.

Hey ScooterAdam:

Quote:
Question to Martin C/Serato, can you please be more specific regarding upper limits of itunes library size, is it solely related to number of itunes "music" tracks or is it the overal size of the itunes folder in terms of gigs?



Sorry, but I dont have anything more accurate to give you. We are working on trying to get more accurate data, but as you can imagine the list of variables to take into consideration are endless:

- Crate amount
- File amount
- File sizes
- File types
- File location length
- iTunes being used (iTunes managing your music or not?)
- External or internal drives


Hi Martin C,

I'm not sure how much more specific I can be regarding my situation/specs.

I mentioned several times now, I do ALL my music management in itunes, use its playlists/smart playlists and don't use any Serato crates.

Please let me know as according to the info you mentioned earlier I don't appear to have very out of the ordinary specs right?

- Crate amount 0
- File amount ~16500
- File sizes Total itunes folder 240gig, of that, music is 112gig around 16000 tracks
- File types 90% mp3, at least half over 320bitrate, at least a couple of gigs of samples are in my itunes library as wavs
- File location length?? itunes manages my music, is currently on my second HD a 7200rpm drive in a caddy where the optical drive would have been
- iTunes being used (iTunes managing your music or not?) YES!
- External or internal drives c: around 120gig SSD, d: around 650gig 7200rpm

Are you and your team actually actively doing anything on this now?

I love the controller and it's potential but... for the best of a year I can't use it and it seems ridiculous having to look at buying a macbook or cutting my library down to use SDJ with it when Traktor works just fine!
DJNitro12 6:51 AM 2 May 2013
The secondary drive, the 650, is that a hybrid drive?
beisi 6:54 AM 2 May 2013
nope, no hybrid is a normal 7200rpm laptop harddrive that has been installed where the optical drive would have gone, it sits inside a caddy thing

the main app / c: drive is purely a SSD around 120gig
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:25 AM 2 May 2013
Using serato crates or itunes playlists uses same amount of memory! So you need to make ya itune playlists smaller less playlists less subplaylists and folders. The file path does seem to help aswell. (But you wants to put all there music in the root of a harddrive in one big mess) also the amount of music. - 12,000 seems to run good with itch/sdj with not to many crates/playlists.

There is no way around this apart from makimg your library SMALLER and LESS crates/playlists.

As said you can have much better library results on the Apple OSX operating system than on Windows.

If getting a macbook pro is totally out the question and serato do not have the skill to find these issues then you are left with only two options.

1. Make your library smaller with less crates/playlists.

2. Move to another software.

End of that is how it is!!!
dj-nice 8:51 AM 2 May 2013
Quote:
Yes, everyone should listen to the Germans, they always know what's best..... Oh wait WW II. Nevermind


please leave my threat. Vollpfosten
beisi 9:14 AM 2 May 2013
Quote:
Using serato crates or itunes playlists uses same amount of memory! So you need to make ya itune playlists smaller less playlists less subplaylists and folders. The file path does seem to help aswell. (But you wants to put all there music in the root of a harddrive in one big mess) also the amount of music. - 12,000 seems to run good with itch/sdj with not to many crates/playlists.

There is no way around this apart from makimg your library SMALLER and LESS crates/playlists.

As said you can have much better library results on the Apple OSX operating system than on Windows.

If getting a macbook pro is totally out the question and serato do not have the skill to find these issues then you are left with only two options.

1. Make your library smaller with less crates/playlists.

2. Move to another software.

End of that is how it is!!!


OK, thanks for the clarification re Serato crates and itunes playlists having same memory usage.

You answer raises more questions for me though:

* You mention the number 12000, what is that? total podcasts/music tracks/videos combined or only itunes 'music' tracks? I have only around 100gig of 'itunes music' and the rest is ios apps/podcasts/videos etc totalling over 200gig

* I will check exact number later but I have about 100-200 itunes playlists (smart and normal), what based on your experience is 'not to many'?

* What are you referring to by file path? I currently let itunes manage my music and the itunes folder is in the standard structure, it is however on a different physical drive than SDJ if you think that is a problem? should SDJ and the itunes library be on the same hard drive? it would be a shame not run SDJ on my SSD but if it would help...

I am trying to do the best with what I have.
What I have is a fairly decently specced custom win 7 laptop
I would suggest that the ability to massively downsize my music library is no so much of a 'skill' as an annoyance.
I have been using Traktor since FinalScratch days, no switch required, thats what makes this so painful to constantly be reminded how easy things can work
I would like to switch to SDJ if it would stop crashing as I like the elastic beatgrids, tight jog integration and wave forms, for everything else Traktor is in the lead IMO.
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:26 PM 2 May 2013
I here you, just saying iv seen the memory issue start with people when they get to over 12,000 files in serato.

Again this all depends how many crates/playlists there is.

Best bet it to make a new library just for SDJ.

I know you have a great laptop but the issue is the software can not use all that great laptop.

I don't know what more anyone can do or say for you.

Just gotta make a smaller library, why dont you close itunes down in sdj then make crates and drag from itunes to crates the stuff you really need and see how you get on see how much you can add till its starts freezing/crashing.
beisi 2:13 PM 2 May 2013
Thanks for the constructive feedback.

I guess you mean the total should be no more than 12000 itunes items, regardless if they are podcasts, music, video, as long as they have audio I assume SDJ tries to load them in memory.

Did you have an estimate how many itunes playlists?

It looks like my last thing to try is to run multiple itunes libraries, one strictly for DJing and another with podcasts/ios stuff, still gonna be painful cutting down my music files library, I really liked having ready access to lots of tracks that I collected over the years

not entirely sure how it works when you have multiple itunes libraries on the same computer, which one does SDJ try to load up, am guessing it is based on the last one opened in the itunes app
Papa Midnight 2:47 PM 2 May 2013
Quote:
I here you, just saying iv seen the memory issue start with people when they get to over 12,000 files in serato.

Again this all depends how many crates/playlists there is.

For me, I used to have hundreds of subcrates. Possibly over a thousand. Nested subcrates at that (i.e.: Promo Only -> Release (i.e.: Urban Club, Urban Radio, Alternative Club, etc.)-> Year -> Month). At some point, I wiped all my crates and did a complete rebuild from the ground up.

If Serato ITCH crossed 1.2GiB of Memory Usage, instant crash.
Quote:
Best bet it to make a new library just for SDJ.

I know you have a great laptop but the issue is the software can not use all that great laptop.

I don't know what more anyone can do or say for you.

Just gotta make a smaller library

This is really what it comes down to. For some reason, Serato's (and I mean this across the board for all products) software does not manage large databases very well. Large amounts of music is one thing, but a large number of crates and subcrates does not help the situation one bit.

Quote:
I guess you mean the total should be no more than 12000 itunes items, regardless if they are podcasts, music, video, as long as they have audio I assume SDJ tries to load them in memory.

I'm not sure if such an arbitrary number is the determinate factor. I presently have about 14,500 in mine (give or take) and have had more with success. I plan to add more once again after I complete re-organising other crates and drive directories.

The one thing I do differently, however, is I use an NTFS drive and have a Hackintosh which I use to DJ that I specifically did not enable the ability to write to NTFS partitions on. I do my database management on Windows and playout on Mac OS X. I'm not saying that there's any benefit to doing so (outside of preventing unintended destruction or corruption of my crates when playing), but it's my personal habit.

Granted, I do not (and refuse to) use iTunes.
Dj Hugh 3:49 PM 2 May 2013
Thanks To DJ Nice, and Martin C for illuminating this issue!

Is there any way to purge the serato library to rebuild a smaller one that serato dj can handle? (Windows 7 w/ itunes)

I don't know about anyone else but I'm looking forward to taking serato dj for a spin on my ns7.
dj-nice 4:17 PM 2 May 2013
you can Double you Database folder and build 2 different kind of databases. so you might have a smaller one for club gigs and a bigger one for private weddings.

you also might export some not often used genres to a USB stick or a (2nd) external HD.

so SERATO......what's going on? You know for 18 month, that Itch and now SDJ has this BUG. Yes, a bug....not a special 32bit problem.

You did nothing to solve this problem. Your optimization causes, that every new version need more RAM by itself......
DJ Quartz 4:20 PM 2 May 2013
As I was saying earlier, the only way around this I found is to make custom serato databases and rename them before you launch the application.

Since leaving Windows, I no longer have this problem it's application issue on the Windows side.

Maybe not technically Windows alone by itself but Windows + SSL/Itch/SDJ has this issue.

It is not an issue on OSX.
dj-nice 4:23 PM 2 May 2013
shure? OSX has no RAM bug above 1.2 GB?
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:27 PM 2 May 2013
it still does it on mac osx but for some reason serato uses alot less ram usage on macbook than it does on windows.
DJ Quartz 4:48 PM 2 May 2013
Well all I know is my database of 70,000+ tracks loads just fine on OSX with 8gb of ram.
I have about 18,000 tracks and about 100 crates/subcrates give or take and i load up no problem in about 10 seconds
DJ Quartz 4:54 PM 2 May 2013
I have a ton of subcrates as well. Now I'm not sure if it's because I'm using the Alchimie tool to manage my db that's making it work well also.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:56 PM 2 May 2013
Not sure what i got but its at its limit if i have sub crates open then close software reppen itch or sdj and get out of memory crash freeze.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:56 PM 2 May 2013
Thats on mac osx 10.6.8
DJ Quartz 5:56 PM 2 May 2013
Oh, I'm actually on 10.8.2
DJ Quartz 5:56 PM 2 May 2013
Actually I believe 10.8.3, I did the update when it launched.
Papa Midnight 6:08 PM 2 May 2013
Quote:
Actually I believe 10.8.3, I did the update when it launched.

Hackintosh is also presently running 10.8.3
beisi 8:13 PM 2 May 2013
well I now tried creating another itunes library (hold down shift when opening) and creating only one playlist in this, to this one playlist I add 20 tracks

SDJ still crashes when trying to load, that makes me think that SDJ is somehow hardcoded to only load only the 'main' itunes library

is there a way to make SDJ use a different library on the same pc laptop? (short of getting rid of it)
DJ Quartz 8:47 PM 2 May 2013
Please file a help request as well for this please.
beisi 9:00 PM 2 May 2013
beisi 12:04 PM 3 May 2013
Quote:
As I was saying earlier, the only way around this I found is to make custom serato databases and rename them before you launch the application.


could you kindly elaborate?

this was when you were still on a PC right, did you have itunes installed? if so how do you disable SDJ from loading it, if not was it just that you would drag files into Serato crate structure

Don't get me wrong, I see the general sentiment here from the last few posts...
doesn't work / don't bother / buy a mac or sell up and go back to Traktor because noone gives a hoot....
Am just exploring all conceivable options before giving up.
DJ Easy Eddie 12:35 PM 3 May 2013
scooterADAM yesterday I actually uninstalled itunes completely as well as its media library/files but it was still the same predicament.
DJ Easy Eddie 1:58 PM 3 May 2013
Update .... I opened my working ITCH 1.7.1 and unchecked the import Itunes Library setting, closed ITCH and then Opened SDJ and for the first time I was able to play SDJ. I played about 10 songs only and I did not remove any songs from my Library (Aprox. 34,000). I will try ITCH 2.2.2 in afew minutes and update the thread.
mr187 8:17 PM 3 May 2013
thats because itunes songs add to the song count and if it was in your serato before adding to your itunes library it gets counted twice.
DJNitro12 3:16 AM 4 May 2013
Hey can I ask a question for these guys having trouble, Are your songs in 1 folder, several folders, or several folders with sub-folders?
mr187 5:59 AM 4 May 2013
ive tried all ways with same results
dj-nice 8:46 AM 4 May 2013
you should open a help request
beisi 9:35 AM 4 May 2013
well for me they are in a bunch of windows sub folders based on the way that itunes manages tracks

it seems those of you who have this working are either using macosx or not using itunes to manage you music, is this not the case for anyone?

help request just sitting there for a week now.
DJ Quartz 6:10 PM 4 May 2013
Definitely don't use itunes for anything but purchasing music. All my database handling is done through Alchemie Zinc now.
Kittmaster 10:37 PM 4 May 2013
Quote:
Hey can I ask a question for these guys having trouble, Are your songs in 1 folder, several folders, or several folders with sub-folders?


This is what my file structure looks like, I used to use the java app to build the crates from the file structure, but eventually that just fell apart. So this is what it is for my current library.

www.kittmaster.com

www.kittmaster.com
dj-nice 11:29 PM 4 May 2013
about 5 Folder with 800 \subcrates and ..\sub subcrates
DJNitro12 6:02 PM 5 May 2013
I don't know if it would make a difference but this is how I have mine, 1 hard drive had 27 folders in it, 0-9 and A-Z with each folder contains artist that start with that letter. On second drive same thing but for videos. Then I use only smart crates sorted by Genre 80's, 90's, oldies, rock, country then I have all my remixes sorted by two genres. For instance "Xmix 80's" "Xmix Country". That way they show up in more than one crate. I don't know if that will work for you guys but I hope it helps.
dj-nice 6:36 PM 5 May 2013
with the day, SERATO offers a possibility to create sub crates as smart crate, I will follow you
Niffybranco 10:25 AM 6 May 2013
What i have noticed is that with the 1.2 it loads six effects on startup , so this easily pushes the Ram it uses past 1.2 gig especially if you have a large database , what to do is rename your _serato_ folder and your database v2 file to something else temporarily and let it create blank libraries , you should be able to load the program without it crashing , go to the effects panel and switch the effects on both sides from loading/displaying 3 effects to displaying just one on each side .

This worked for me , along with removing a lot of files from my database , only just got a DDJ-SX 2days ago so still finding ways to make it more stable , it is a shame it is not a 64 bit program , come on serato , do we need to send donations so you can assign a team to make a 64bit version ?
beisi 10:54 AM 6 May 2013
well i got SDJ working for like an hour last night without itunes library integration

first deinstalled SDJ (important to do before changing itunes libraries, because if SDJ is already installed it seems to go for the main one even if you have switched)
then while holding down shift opening my itunes library, choosing a new blank itunes library
then reinstalling SDJ
opening SDJ and going straight for options, unclick 'show itunes library'
now opening SDJ, it doesn't have any library in it
then creating a crate
reopening itunes with my normal +200gig library
opening an itunes playlist/select all and drag into the newly created crate

then was able to use SDJ with my vci380 on my win7pc albeit not with my main music library

running via a workaround still doesn't solve the problem raised by this thread:
- still can't use my main itunes music library directly
- a lot of upfront work to recreate my itunes playlists in SDJ crates
- requires manual maintenance to keep SDJ crates in line with my itunes playlists

Now I think that its safe to assume that the way that the library loading (seemingly memory inefficient and non scalable) code is, is so deep in the core code of SDJ/Itch that it can't be easily fixed, hence why Serato give no suggestion of a fix here any time soon. Furthermore I think we can all logically assume that Serato has ZERO plans to make a 64bit version any time in the next 1-2 years.

@DJQuartz: I looked into Alchemie Zinc and if I read correctlty on another thread here they may soon introduce itunes playlist->SDJ crate sync, this could help speed up this manual database recreation process, still a workaround though
DJ Quartz 2:45 PM 6 May 2013
Well, I'm not having database issues on OSX, so I'm just using Alchimie + Dr. Tag for all my track management.
mr187 4:44 PM 6 May 2013
Quote:
well i got SDJ working for like an hour last night without itunes library integration

first deinstalled SDJ (important to do before changing itunes libraries, because if SDJ is already installed it seems to go for the main one even if you have switched)
then while holding down shift opening my itunes library, choosing a new blank itunes library
then reinstalling SDJ
opening SDJ and going straight for options, unclick 'show itunes library'
now opening SDJ, it doesn't have any library in it
then creating a crate
reopening itunes with my normal +200gig library
opening an itunes playlist/select all and drag into the newly created crate

then was able to use SDJ with my vci380 on my win7pc albeit not with my main music library

running via a workaround still doesn't solve the problem raised by this thread:
- still can't use my main itunes music library directly
- a lot of upfront work to recreate my itunes playlists in SDJ crates
- requires manual maintenance to keep SDJ crates in line with my itunes playlists

Now I think that its safe to assume that the way that the library loading (seemingly memory inefficient and non scalable) code is, is so deep in the core code of SDJ/Itch that it can't be easily fixed, hence why Serato give no suggestion of a fix here any time soon. Furthermore I think we can all logically assume that Serato has ZERO plans to make a 64bit version any time in the next 1-2 years.

@DJQuartz: I looked into Alchemie Zinc and if I read correctlty on another thread here they may soon introduce itunes playlist->SDJ crate sync, this could help speed up this manual database recreation process, still a workaround though

if you dont have a idevice(s) i'd just get rit of itunes.
beisi 6:14 PM 6 May 2013
your advise is sensible but...

i have done so much work putting together smart playlists, tagging metadata and I do sync to iphone/ipad/ipodnano... for me its just easier sticking with itunes

i realize that it is pretty famously rubbish on the pc but yeah at least, the integration works perfect with my traktor rig, so for now I guess i'm stuck doing the workaround I mentioned above
DJ Quartz 4:25 PM 7 May 2013
Honestly, I never used itunes with SSL/Itch and I still had problems on the Windows side.

It's going to require a rewrite of the windows version to fix this.
Papa Midnight 5:29 PM 7 May 2013
Quote:
Honestly, I never used itunes with SSL/Itch and I still had problems on the Windows side.

It's going to require a rewrite of the windows version to fix this.

Nor have I. Granted, I hate iTunes so that has something to do with my not using it.

I am inclined to agree, Quartz.
armed98 9:22 PM 7 May 2013
I have a Macbook Pro 13inch,I use for SSL and it runs flawlessly with my big database of music ,I got a VCI-380 and started using Serato DJ and it crashes ( I don't use Itunes) Opened up a ticket a few days ago and haven't gotten a response.Seems like the product has a major flaw i this area, sucks because the VCI-380 is damn good hardware but Serato DJ seems to be a let down so far.
djshorzy69 6:18 AM 14 May 2013
yeah its bullcrap,i have 200,00 songs on external hard drive,i have a lenova i7 8 gigs of memory with 3.1ghz processor,should be plenty of power
to run serato dj,but i got my 2nd pioneer ddj-sx,hooked up my 2 tb external hard drive and turned on serato dj installed music folder,started annalyzing it and again pioneer ddj-sx froze and serata dj closed,so heres what i didI uninstalled everything,reinstalled everything,
then i renamed _serato_ folder to old_serato_ and _datadv2_ to _datadatadv2_ on both laptop and external hard drive serato folders.this time i did not put large music folder into serato dj and did not have it annalyze it,thats were the problem is,i plugged external hard drive to laptop,turned on serato dj,turned on pioneer ddj-sx,i just dragged 1 song at a time into virtual drives and BAM IT WORKS,,i had MediaMonkey annalyze all my music on external hard drive and you can search for song throu it too,this is just external hard drive fix until i get my large internal hard drive to put music on,put most popular music on internal drive and have serato annalyze them,keep majority on external without annalyzing
hope this help some of you out
beisi 1:47 PM 14 May 2013
current recommendation for those unlucky enough to be one of the minority experiencing this low priority problem:
- all music on the same drive, preferably an SSD, in as simple as possible folder structure as possible
- as little music in your Serato library as possible
- as few Serato crates as possible
- don't use iTunes
- don't use a PC
Papa Midnight 2:48 PM 14 May 2013
So let me process your logic...
Near 1TB 2.5" SSD purely for music storage, $599.99 (www.newegg.com)
Crappy folder structure
Limited Serato Library
Few Serato Crates
Don't Use iTunes (I don't disagree)
Don't use a PC (So, throw out that 3rd-gen i7 with 16GB of RAM and a GTX680M).
...
...
...
Or just fix the bloody program.
beisi 3:01 PM 14 May 2013
Quote:
Or just fix the bloody program.


agree with ya, but it doesn't look like that will happen any time soon, so the (somewhat ridiculous) reccomendation stands
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:02 PM 14 May 2013
Or use cdjs with scratchlive.
Dj Nyce 4:08 PM 14 May 2013
just for the record I have 50,000 tracks on a 5400 rpm 1tb hdd in the super drive slot. I use iTunes and have about 75 playlists (smart and regular) and 20 crates.

When running sdj I do not experience any issues.

So with that known, you can rule out iTunes and you can rule out the type of hard drive the music is stored on.

Hope your problem is resolved.
Papa Midnight 4:53 PM 14 May 2013
Quote:
So with that known [...] and you can rule out the type of hard drive the music is stored on.

Someone tried to make that claim earlier and turned into a clown insulting anyone who disagreed with them and trying to make their e-ego get bigger at the expense of others (Insecurity at it's finest). Utterly ridiculous.

Quote:
You can rule out iTune

I personally don't use iTunes so I cannot speak to it.

Quote:
just for the record I have 50,000 tracks on a 5400 rpm 1tb hdd in the super drive slot. I use iTunes and have about 75 playlists (smart and regular) and 20 crates.

At one point, I was in excess of 65,000 tracks on a 5400rpm external drive myself. This was before I wiped all my crates (due to them becoming corrupted resulted from a crash due to the memory bug) and started from scratch. I have not completed reimporting all my tracks and removing dupes (and I am in the process of cleaning up ID3 tags), but I was in excess of a six or seven hundred crates/subcrates/nested-subcrates at one point (this is no understatement or sarcasm). I'm not sure what the tipping point was, but I know there was a point where my RAM exceeded a certain amount after so many songs / crates were loaded and Serato ITCH would consistently crash without failure.

I have not had the same experience in ITCH or SDJ today (due to a significantly decreased library size and crate amount - for the time being anyway), however my total crates has been reduced to around 80-90 for the time being.
vboyd666 7:01 PM 14 May 2013
Quote:
just for the record I have 50,000 tracks on a 5400 rpm 1tb hdd in the super drive slot. I use iTunes and have about 75 playlists (smart and regular) and 20 crates.

When running sdj I do not experience any issues.

So with that known, you can rule out iTunes and you can rule out the type of hard drive the music is stored on.


I have close to the same setup and have experienced no issues using iTunes to manage my music and use a combination of iTunes smart playlists and Serato Smart Crates.

If you have over 50,000 songs, it would be my suggestion that you need to clean out your library. 200,000+ songs is just plain crazy. Who needs that much music for a gig?
nik39 8:36 PM 14 May 2013
Quote:
current recommendation for those unlucky enough to be one of the minority experiencing this low priority problem:
- all music on the same drive, preferably an SSD, in as simple as possible folder structure as possible
- as little music in your Serato library as possible
- as few Serato crates as possible
- don't use iTunes
- don't use a PC

SSD will *not* make a difference in this case. It has not effect on the memory print.
vboyd666 8:39 PM 14 May 2013
@nik39: Agreed. SSD has no impact or benefit over using a standard internal HDD.

After all, all you are doing is loading a 5-25 MB song into memory. With SSD we are talking about a 0.00001 MS of speed increase.
Papa Midnight 9:15 PM 14 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
just for the record I have 50,000 tracks on a 5400 rpm 1tb hdd in the super drive slot. I use iTunes and have about 75 playlists (smart and regular) and 20 crates.

When running sdj I do not experience any issues.

So with that known, you can rule out iTunes and you can rule out the type of hard drive the music is stored on.


I have close to the same setup and have experienced no issues using iTunes to manage my music and use a combination of iTunes smart playlists and Serato Smart Crates.

If you have over 50,000 songs, it would be my suggestion that you need to clean out your library. 200,000+ songs is just plain crazy. Who needs that much music for a gig?

That logic is broken.
One, who says it's all being used for a gig?
Two, who says you don't play more than one genre? Open Format gigs? Freestyle gigs?
Three, not all of it is for gigs.
Four, you'd be amazed at what can be requested at some events.
Five, if I kept going this wouldn't end so I'm going to stop here...
vboyd666 9:27 PM 14 May 2013
@DJ PM: I play at multiple locations per weekend playing different genres of music. One venue is Rock, retro, alternative, party music, and some top 40 sprinkled in. My other venue is dance, urban, and top 40. I have music for all that and more any my library isn't over 60,000 songs.

That being said. Every one of my 60,000 songs is club playable at any time (no filler). I keep a pretty lean Serato library :-)
DJNitro12 10:52 PM 14 May 2013
Awww someone is thinking about me again..... As I stated before, when it comes to music, internal, external, 5400, 7200, HD, SSD doesn't really make a difference. However if you plan on pulling huge HD video files, you're better off with the fastest read drive you can afford.
DJ Quartz 1:32 AM 15 May 2013
I'm not having database issues either on 10.8.3 with 1.2 @ 70,000+ tracks.

I have a system drive and music drive installed using the dvd drive kit.
Kittmaster 1:41 AM 15 May 2013
Quote:
@DJ PM: I play at multiple locations per weekend playing different genres of music. One venue is Rock, retro, alternative, party music, and some top 40 sprinkled in. My other venue is dance, urban, and top 40. I have music for all that and more any my library isn't over 60,000 songs.

That being said. Every one of my 60,000 songs is club playable at any time (no filler). I keep a pretty lean Serato library :-)


As it has been said repeatedly, just because YOU choose not to have that many songs, doesn't mean everyone has to be like YOU. Since when are YOU the barometer of how things should be done? You must not have read the part where at one point one of the selling points of ITCH > now DJ > said you can have unlimited amount of songs etc....clearly we've proven otherwise, but let me say this, if the "OS" can handle storing all of those files, then Serato should be able to index them and deal, clearly there is an issue due to x32 bumping into the the app RAM limit.

Yes, the answer is, trim your library, sorry, I shouldn't have too.

If VDJ, Trakktor, Torq all can handle it all gracefully, don't you think a premiere piece of software like Serato should also?....think about it.

Everyone has different work flows, if I choose to carry the kitchen sink and was sold a bill of goods that can hold that kitchen sink, it better not leak when in operation......and right now....it's flooding.....and more than one or two people are seeing the same issue.......we can't ALL be wrong.
DJ Quartz 1:43 AM 15 May 2013
Are you guys talking Windows or Mac OSX right now?
Kittmaster 2:20 AM 15 May 2013
Mostly on Windows, but has been also seen on Mac but not as often.
Papa Midnight 2:21 AM 15 May 2013
Quote:
Mostly on Windows, but has been also seen on Mac but not as often.

I've only seen it once on Mac, but the Windows binary is the main culprit here.
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:39 AM 15 May 2013
I can get it on mac, just leave all my subcrates open then close software reopen and get out of memory hang. I have to open scratchlive first make sure all subcrates are closed.

How do you find out how many files are in your serato library???

The funny thing is VDJ can load your serato crates and itunes library and work fine! Serato itch and sdj can not! Very strange indeed!
DJ Easy Eddie 12:20 PM 15 May 2013
From Slashdot today:

apple.slashdot.org
Papa Midnight 4:30 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
From Slashdot today:

apple.slashdot.org

I see nothing changes.
DJ Wizdom 5:24 PM 15 May 2013
I've seen some best practice suggestions to mitigate crashes due to the 32bit Ram constraint (e.g., reduce the number of crates), but can someone put together a best practice list of actions that we can do to reduce the amount of RAM that is used while using Serato DJ or Itch?
vboyd666 6:19 PM 15 May 2013
@Kittmaster: whoa, what's with the hostility. I never claimed to be a barometer or anything else.

All I've tried to do is provide a hypothesis on why Serato crashes when opening large libraries. Until the fine people at Serato correct the issue, then a practical suggestion would be to trim the library, or at least the crates.
mr187 6:28 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
I've seen some best practice suggestions to mitigate crashes due to the 32bit Ram constraint (e.g., reduce the number of crates), but can someone put together a best practice list of actions that we can do to reduce the amount of RAM that is used while using Serato DJ or Itch?

Best thing you can do is if it is related to library size get rid of some crates and remove some files from your library. Or you can do what i do put only files you regularly play in your library. and use Traktor or Vdj and set up your crates there and just drag songs from there to Itch or Sdj. if you also use SSL just get a septate hard drive for SSL with the whole collection because SSL don't have this problem.
Kittmaster 6:49 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
@Kittmaster: whoa, what's with the hostility. I never claimed to be a barometer or anything else.

All I've tried to do is provide a hypothesis on why Serato crashes when opening large libraries. Until the fine people at Serato correct the issue, then a practical suggestion would be to trim the library, or at least the crates.


Not really trying to be hostile, but comments like this:

Quote:
If you have over 50,000 songs, it would be my suggestion that you need to clean out your library. 200,000+ songs is just plain crazy. Who needs that much music for a gig?


What kind of response do you expect to get? There are people with a lot less files and haviing similiar issues. Scaling back your library is NOT the solution, a fix to the app is the only solution. We've been working around this for 18 months....so continually hearing 'scale back your library' gets pretty old, pretty fast.

Sorry if it came off as hostile, it was more of a "make you think" about what your saying that we are expected to follow......everyone has different work flows. Crazy to you, doesn't make it crazy for everyone else......more like.....being prepared for any and everything. So don't take it personal.
DJ Quartz 6:51 PM 15 May 2013
End of day, it just needs to be fixed.
Papa Midnight 8:26 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
If you have over 50,000 songs, it would be my suggestion that you need to clean out your library. 200,000+ songs is just plain crazy. Who needs that much music for a gig?


What kind of response do you expect to get? There are people with a lot less files and haviing similiar issues. Scaling back your library is NOT the solution, a fix to the app is the only solution. We've been working around this for 18 months....so continually hearing 'scale back your library' gets pretty old, pretty fast.

I feel inclined to agree.

Quote:
End of day, it just needs to be fixed.

Agreed.
Phuture2 10:08 PM 15 May 2013
is tere ever gonna be a fix? or will Serato promise a fix and then never come true. kinda like "Itch"
Papa Midnight 11:09 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
is tere ever gonna be a fix? or will Serato promise a fix and then never come true. kinda like "Itch"

Promise a fix? Hell, don't get ahead of yourself. We haven't even had a response.
beisi 11:24 PM 15 May 2013
I guess the question is, what needs to happen for this to get priority in the the current SDJ development roadmap?

Personally I think the biggest reason for is based on reputational risk.

Serato (mainly SSL) in my head has had a kind of simple/stable brand image. Not a lot of frills but rock solid.

Itch and now SDJ on the other elicit for me a very different image, something of a very capable but very delicate piece of software. I used to (early versions) think Itch was also rock solid but my experience has shown me otherwise and I don't think it is only me.

If this temperamental, prone to crash perception gradually becomes the norm it will not be taken seriously.

Commercially I guess this is currently offset by "what other new features can we work on/new controllers can we map that will make us instant revenue?" and when some peeps go on and on on a forum it doesn't warrant any action in comparison. This combined with unfeasibly long time it takes to produce a mapping for a new controller.

Traktor doesn't run out of RAM due to a large library.
SSL doesn't. (or rather not usually from what I hear)
Itch/SDJ does.

How professional is SDJ?
How professionsl does it want to be seen?
Are we that much of minority here that our requests are irrelevant?
nik39 11:41 PM 15 May 2013
Quote:
SSL doesn't. (or rather not usually from what I hear)

It also happens for SL.
Papa Midnight 1:08 AM 16 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
SSL doesn't. (or rather not usually from what I hear)

It also happens for SL.

Yup.
Martin C 3:36 AM 16 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
is tere ever gonna be a fix? or will Serato promise a fix and then never come true. kinda like "Itch"

Promise a fix? Hell, don't get ahead of yourself. We haven't even had a response.


Hey man, at least give me some credit. I have responded as much as I possibly can in this discussion and read what you guys post every day. I can promise this will be fixed, but I can't promise when it will happen.

Quote:
Are we that much of minority here that our requests are irrelevant?


Your requests aren't irrelevant, we hear everyone loud and clear. Its really a massively frustrating problem.

Im sorry but there isn't anything else I can say that I haven't already said in this discussion :(
Phuture2 3:53 AM 16 May 2013
Martin,
I do know you are trying to help, but as a loyal user from my end it feels like this is not going to happen any time soon. I have been monitering this crash post and other ones and everyone from Serato says the same thing "downsize the Library" that is no fix. so it gets annoying to keep hearing the same thing over and over. I have been working with Dave W on my crash issue and its still the same. The users want to hear fix not a band aid. We are all doing this to make money and survive. The idea is to make our voices heard and to fight to protect our investments and time we have put into building libraries through the years.
Martin C 4:01 AM 16 May 2013
I can't disagree with most of what you have said Phuture2.

All we (as Support Staff) can offer you guys at this stage is assistance to downsize the library. The other portion of our job is to try and make your guys voices heard and have this issue fixed faster. We do what we can with both aspects.

However, yes, its important this thread is continued, and you guys do continue to voice your opinions.
Papa Midnight 4:16 AM 16 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
is tere ever gonna be a fix? or will Serato promise a fix and then never come true. kinda like "Itch"

Promise a fix? Hell, don't get ahead of yourself. We haven't even had a response.


Hey man, at least give me some credit. I have responded as much as I possibly can in this discussion and read what you guys post every day. I can promise this will be fixed, but I can't promise when it will happen.

Quote:
Are we that much of minority here that our requests are irrelevant?


Your requests aren't irrelevant, we hear everyone loud and clear. Its really a massively frustrating problem.

Im sorry but there isn't anything else I can say that I haven't already said in this discussion :(

I have to apologize Martin as you indeed have responded previously on this topic. I know there are other issues as well. For me, this is just particularly a source of frustration; and, when it has existed for so long, I needed to vent such. Much to that effect, I do believe many an end user here could echo the sentiments expressed by Phuture2 a couple of post above.
Martin C 4:57 AM 16 May 2013
Thanks for acknowledging I am at least present, even though that does give you guys a fix. I completely understand you need to vent. This is the best place to do that.

Bar a few misunderstandings about how Serato works internally (which is understandable), I sit here and nod my head to most of what you guys post.
beisi 10:12 AM 16 May 2013
Here is what I understand from the feedback in this thread:
- Is this a problem? Yes, large libraries should not cause SDJ to run out of RAM and crash
- Is there a fix now? No
- Is there a workaround? Downsize/simplify structure/no itunes/use mac(debatable)
- Is this a satisfactory workaround? IMO no and I would suggest others feel the same way
- Is Serato actively working on a 64 bit version of SDJ? No, and not in the near future
- Is Serato actively working to fix this problem in the current 32 bit version? Also no, dev priority is elsewhere

So then, all that being the case, the only remaining question to Serato:
- what needs to happen for this issue to be high enough priority that work will be undertaken to fix this in the current version?
Phuture2 11:10 AM 16 May 2013
Quote:
So then, all that being the case, the only remaining question to Serato:
- what needs to happen for this issue to be high enough priority that work will be undertaken to fix this in the current version?

I agree with that statement
djshorzy69 11:16 AM 16 May 2013
its annalyzing large music folder that makes serato crash,if you dont add your large music folder from external hard drive to serato and if you just drag individual songs into deck from external hard drive then annalyze there it will work just fine,

its bullcrap,but this is temporary fix until serato figures what the hell to do

DO NOT ADD LARGE MUSIC FOLDER FROM EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE(LIKE 500 GIGS OR MORE) TO SERATO TO ANNALYZE OR IT WILL CRASH PERIOD
Phuture2 3:04 PM 16 May 2013
Its not only adding music to analyze. Its also reading the tracks fromthe drive after they have been analyzed
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:12 PM 16 May 2013
its todo with the databasev2 file!!! why because if people delete these files then open sdj or itch they have luck in onpening them. plus VDJ can read serato crates and load them totally fine (if does not read the databasev2 file)

so the databasev2 file has to be the pin point of the issues!!
DJ Quartz 3:22 PM 16 May 2013
Do we have a threshold approximation where this occurs.

From my testing SDJ 1.2 actually loads my collection FASTER than SSL 2.4.4 and it doesn't crash whatsoever and works perfectly with SV 1.1.0.5 (Another Discussion)

I have approximately 75,000+ ish tracks in my database right now and I did a clean up recently just after I installed SDJ 1.2

However, I don't use iTunes, I have 8gb with an i7 and OSX 10.8.3. I have a secondary 7200rpm 750gb drive that all my music, serato database resides on solely.

My main system drive is a matching model 7200rpm 750gb drive where all my applications are installed. ie: OS, SSL, SDJ, SV, Ableton, Maschine, Adobe CS6, etc...

I did see this crash issue on the Windows side with Itch with the same database and I had to create custom _Serato_ folders to combat this.

On the OSX side Itch worked out the box and so does SDJ.

Now the only difference that might be on my side is I use Alchemie to manage the database solely.

I don't do any database management in SSL/SDJ anymore apart from deleting bad tracks.

Could this make a big difference?
DJ Quartz 3:26 PM 16 May 2013
@ Martin, would my databaseV2 file help for comparison to see if it's maybe corrupt record entries causing issues for these guys vs memory ceiling?
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:24 PM 16 May 2013
Quote:

Now the only difference that might be on my side is I use Alchemie to manage the database solely.

I don't do any database management in SSL/SDJ anymore apart from deleting bad tracks.

Could this make a big difference?


Nope i have used that to make serato database and still crash. it does take ALOT more on mac to crash/out of memory than on windows.

like i have said i can make sdj crash my leaving all my sub crates open when i launch the software.

i also use smart crates.

i'm looking at ways to totally redue my library! make sure all copies of the same are gone and all remixes i never play delete. Just keep radio edits for the requests of stuff i never really play.
Dj Nyce 4:52 PM 16 May 2013
also i do have 16gb of ram...
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:25 PM 16 May 2013
Doesnt matter sdj/itch only uses 1.2gb-1.5gb when it crashes/memory hang.
Martin C 11:02 PM 16 May 2013
Quote:
- Is this a problem? Yes, large libraries should not cause SDJ to run out of RAM and crash
- Is there a fix now? No
- Is there a workaround? Downsize/simplify structure/no itunes/use mac(debatable)
- Is this a satisfactory workaround? IMO no and I would suggest others feel the same way


What you have said here is fair enough. The bottom line though is that if you aren't willing to attempt to try the workaround, the problem will continue to exist for you. I know thats not exactly what anyone wants to hear.

Quote:
- Is Serato actively working on a 64 bit version of SDJ? No, and not in the near future
- Is Serato actively working to fix this problem in the current 32 bit version? Also no, dev priority is elsewhere


Your answers here are untrue, and go against what I have been saying in this discussion.

Quote:
- what needs to happen for this issue to be high enough priority that work will be undertaken to fix this in the current version?


This is a fair question. If we were to completely drop all of our current projects and focus ALL of our developers on this one issue, first and foremost (I would love it :)

Secondly, we would have to explain to all owners of the controllers remaining, waiting for Serato DJ support, that the support will be further delayed. Thats the Numark N4, Vestax Typhoon, Novation TWITCH, Vestax VCI-100 mk II, Numark MixDeck Quad, Vestax VCI-300 and the Numark V7. On top of that, existing Serato DJ users will have to wait longer for an update to include any new features/bug fixes.

Lastly, we will also have to explain to Scratch Live users, the next update will be delayed, and they won't be getting any new features we have planned for them.

So, if you were the development manager, would you take on the job of explaining to all of our customers that? How do you think it would go down with all of those people?

Im not trying to ruffle feathers here. I wholeheartedly agree with your notion, but you are failing to consider some of the other aspects of this current dilemma. We really need to get across all the controllers to our new platform, and get a few others thing in order before tackling this problem full on. We are working away at it, but you can't run into a problem head first without doing all the necessary investigation and considering all consequences.

Quote:
@ Martin, would my databaseV2 file help for comparison to see if it's maybe corrupt record entries causing issues for these guys vs memory ceiling?


Thanks Quartz, but I believe someone already has your database file here. We aren't running short of large libraries to test with right now I can tell you that much :)
Kittmaster 11:51 PM 16 May 2013
Martin,

This is being said without any emotion or any negativity, I will only ask two questions:

During the ITCH to DJ transition, one of the main points that was made at that time was, and I'm paraphrasing from memory so I could be wrong, that DJ was rewritten from the ground up......I believe that is what was stated, correct? If so, then why does this problem still even exist if that is true?

I don't really expect any answers to those questions, but that is what was presented to us during that time frame, or something really close thereto.

As to the quote below:

Quote:
So, if you were the development manager, would you take on the job of explaining to all of our customers that? How do you think it would go down with all of those people?


If this issue were presented to all Serato partners first and foremost as: we won't be doing anything else until we fix this critical issue....I believe the only statement that needs to be presented is......"We are fixing a severe instability issue that causes the program to crash during a live performance with all hardware controllers"

I don't think there is a Serato partner on the planet that would say.....no.

Just my thoughts, without any negativity or emotion.
Papa Midnight 12:00 AM 17 May 2013
Quote:
"We are fixing a severe instability issue that causes the program to crash during a live performance with all hardware controllers"

I don't think there is a Serato partner on the planet that would say.....no.

I can see the jokes, wisecracks, and statements in the Scratch Live and "General DJ Discussions" forum now. "Button pushers auto-sync not working? LOL!"
...that would be practically inevitable, granted some people have reported above experiencing the same with Scratch Live.

Quote:
If this issue were presented to all Serato partners first and foremost as: we won't be doing anything else until we fix this critical issue

It's not so much the hardware partners that they need to address as it is the customers (that would be us as end users), some of whom are already up in arms that the release of Serato DJ for their devices have been pushed back. I have to agree with Martin's statement:

Quote:
[...] you can't run into a problem head first without doing all the necessary investigation and considering all consequences.
DJ Quartz 12:15 AM 17 May 2013
Quote:
Thanks Quartz, but I believe someone already has your database file here. We aren't running short of large libraries to test with right now I can tell you that much :)



I haven't sent a database to you guys since I've switched to MacOS and been using Alchemie Zinc for management.

The databases you have are from my Windows system + Itch Sync.
Kittmaster 12:17 AM 17 May 2013
I agree with Martin's statement as well about everything being pushed back, but it can/does globally affect every piece of hardware potentially connected to it. Not just within this thread, seems like every day we are seeing new crash threads....sometimes library related sometimes not.

Totally get this is a very complicated issue that affects everything around it.....and there is no easy answer right now. Just extremely frustrated.
Phuture2 12:23 AM 17 May 2013
You can add me too the list of fustrated DJS with Serato DJ. I am at my wits end as well. Right now we are all stuck until a fix is availible
armed98 2:55 AM 17 May 2013
Martin C, All I can say is thanks for at least stepping up and answering the tough questions from a frustrated consumer base it may not be what we all want to hear but at least we are hearing from Serato. I hope the next release has an open beta so that we can help to identify and proactively work through issues.Thanks again.
beisi 8:52 AM 17 May 2013
Martin C, cheers for responding, agree that its better than hearing nothing.

Quote:
Quote:
- Is Serato actively working on a 64 bit version of SDJ? No, and not in the near future
- Is Serato actively working to fix this problem in the current 32 bit version? Also no, dev priority is elsewhere

Your answers here are untrue, and go against what I have been saying in this discussion.


OK my apologies if this is indeed untrue...

"64 bit version in near future" - release in next coming year/18months
"Serato is actively working to fix this problem" - at least one developer is currently spending time reworking code to make the 32 bit version code not run out of memory with large libraries

care to elaborate? maybe I missed it but I don't recall reading anything suggesting light at the end of the tunnel here...

Quote:

On top of that, existing Serato DJ users will have to wait longer for an update to include any new features/bug fixes.


surely new features are not being prioritized over this bug fix? maybe I misunderstand your statement but it is very frustrating to hear if this is the case

fair enough if there are other higher priority bug fixes to be resolved earlier, as in bugs that crash the software without a workaround

Quote:

Lastly, we will also have to explain to Scratch Live users, the next update will be delayed, and they won't be getting any new features we have planned for them.


OK got it, this implies there is only one project team tackling everything at once, not broken down into different teams working on different project streams

so then, assuming that:
new SSL features > fixing SDJ bugs
mapping SDJ controllers > fixing SDJ bugs
other SDJ bug fixes > fixing large library running out of ram crash issue
new SDJ features > fixing large library running out of ram crash issue

just they way Serato works I guess, sucks to be at the bottom of the heap

Quote:

So, if you were the development manager, would you take on the job of explaining to all of our customers that? How do you think it would go down with all of those people?


I guess by customers you are talking about Hardware vendors, SSL user base and SDJ user base.

I don't recall ever seeing concrete new functionality/bug fix roadmap announcements to end users for either SSL or SDJ so that isn't an issue, there isn't anything to communicate.

To SSL hardware partners, can't say nothing, shouldn't even be linked with this issue. That is down to having one team doing everything.

To SDJ hardware partners, do they want their brand associated with crashy software, are they happy to have the reputational risk? this does beg the question though why does everything have to standstill while 'mapping' controllers, can this really not be done in paralell?
Martin C 4:36 AM 18 May 2013
Quote:
During the ITCH to DJ transition, one of the main points that was made at that time was, and I'm paraphrasing from memory so I could be wrong, that DJ was rewritten from the ground up......I believe that is what was stated, correct? If so, then why does this problem still even exist if that is true?


Not all code was rewritten, but lots of it was. The overall goal is to make the code more modular, allowing for flexibility in the future. The way I understand what has happened thus far is that many useful chunks of ITCH were used in combination with new code to create Serato DJ. The new code primarily was to break some of the limitations of ITCH in order for us to get to the first stage, however there is still some legacy stuff we need to work through. The library system, as many have pointed out hasn't changed in any dramatic way since Scratch Live, so this is one of the area of the code I would imagine is very similar across all of our DJ software currently.

Quote:
I don't really expect any answers to those questions, but that is what was presented to us during that time frame, or something really close thereto.

I am sorry if this is how the message came out. We try and be as accurate as possible, but I am sure you can understand a non developer trying to explain the merging strategy and code architecture may not always come fully correct.

Quote:
If this issue were presented to all Serato partners first and foremost as: we won't be doing anything else until we fix this critical issue....I believe the only statement that needs to be presented is......"We are fixing a severe instability issue that causes the program to crash during a live performance with all hardware controllers"


You might be right. I don't wanna to speculate too much, but I would say there would be mixed feelings among our hardware partners. I feel like there are ups and downs to both tactics.

Quote:
I haven't sent a database to you guys since I've switched to MacOS and been using Alchemie Zinc for management.

The databases you have are from my Windows system + Itch Sync.


Aah ok, do you want to maybe PM me it or something? I am sure it can come of some use.

Quote:
Not just within this thread, seems like every day we are seeing new crash threads....sometimes library related sometimes not.


I can't disagree with that. The issue for support is very prominent, so we are trying to log numbers of reports and adding additional information to bug reports as we find it, to add further weight to this issue.

Quote:
"64 bit version in near future" - release in next coming year/18months

I can't make promises about when things will be released. But I surely hope we can do it within that timeframe.

Quote:
"Serato is actively working to fix this problem" - at least one developer is currently spending time reworking code to make the 32 bit version code not run out of memory with large libraries


Yes. There isn't ONE dedicated developer working on this issue full time or anything (meaning that it is their role), the work is done in a particular way. If you are familiar with the "Scrum framework" then it might give you an insight as to how we operate. en.wikipedia.org(development)

Basically we have a large backlog of "stories" and MANY of these stories will involve reducing memory usage, improving parts of library etc. These stories are taken into development teams alongside many other stories for other things; features/controller support/investigation stories and other less visible things like creating tests and procedures to improve many other aspects of what we do.

At any point, there will be more than one developer working on memory related stories, in sections. My explanation of the process is brief, but its means we disperse our development resources evenly across all the tasks we need to do in our product range.

Quote:
surely new features are not being prioritized over this bug fix? maybe I misunderstand your statement but it is very frustrating to hear if this is the case

fair enough if there are other higher priority bug fixes to be resolved earlier, as in bugs that crash the software without a workaround


Generally no, not NEW features. Multi FX might be the only example of something that was implemented into Serato DJ and was considered fairly high priority. More or less though, we are still just working through reimplementing some of the crucial things that Scratch Live or ITCH has back into Serato DJ. I wouldn't say there are a many features of higher priority, but if you think about how we operate (which I touched on above), lets use a silly example:

- Memory issue requires 100 weeks of work
- Feature X requires 1 week of work, we need to implement 100 features

2 Developers take on the work. We have three options of what we could here:

A: Both devs make 100 features in 50 weeks, nobody works on the memory issue.

B:1 Dev works on the memory issue and takes 100 weeks, the other makes 100 features in the same time.

C: Both devs work on the memory issue in 50 weeks and there are no new features.

You guys may not agree, and you may do things differently if it were up to you, but option B, although the result takes longer, is an even distribution of resources. Please don't take these examples literally though, this is a very crude explanation/example scenario of our procedures here.

Quote:
OK got it, this implies there is only one project team tackling everything at once, not broken down into different teams working on different project streams


No, we do have different teams working on different project streams. My example though was if ALL teams had dropped everything to work on the memory issue.

Quote:
I don't recall ever seeing concrete new functionality/bug fix roadmap announcements to end users for either SSL or SDJ so that isn't an issue, there isn't anything to communicate.


We often only communicate particular aspects of what we plan to do, as it can be risky to make too many promises when in the software industry things can change in a heartbeat, but its fairly expected of any company to have regular updates and to at least put out versions that resolve outstanding issues. An example of something we have communicated; in my previous post I mentioned that there are several controllers still awaiting Serato DJ support, which has been publicly announced. So yes, there will be something to communicate.

Quote:
To SSL hardware partners, can't say nothing, shouldn't even be linked with this issue. That is down to having one team doing everything.


Again, my example was in response to someones elses implied idea of dropping everything we are doing to work on this memory issue. So if this were to happen, we would have to explain to Rane and the Scratch Live customers that they will be waiting longer for a release, because ALL of our resources were dedicated to the memory issue.

Quote:
To SDJ hardware partners, do they want their brand associated with crashy software, are they happy to have the reputational risk? this does beg the question though why does everything have to standstill while 'mapping' controllers, can this really not be done in paralell?


I can't speculate on what our hardware partners think in regards to this issue. As I have explained in this post, things are being done in parallel. Thats what I have been trying to explain to you guys this whole discussion. The idea of having everything come to standstill was not my idea, someone else had suggested it.
DjSyndic8 2:58 PM 18 May 2013
Ok I used to lose hair over this issue and finally I gave up on windows and bought myself a Mac Book Pro and I never ever have this problem.
Ive just run Serato DJ on my NS7 for the first time and daaam it runs so smooth I also notice it does not take long to load my massive music collection on my 2TB external drive


I'll say it again If Djing is a Career then invest in a Mac :)
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:11 PM 18 May 2013
This issue is also on mac but yes its loads worse on windows.
maviccf 3:17 PM 18 May 2013
As I mentioned before, the issue is on your files, if you have too many, it is hard to narrow down wich ones are causing the problem.
Cheers
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:31 PM 18 May 2013
Quote:
As I mentioned before, the issue is on your files, if you have too many, it is hard to narrow down wich ones are causing the problem.
Cheers


Not true at all. It is an issue with the software!

Lots of nice workarounds people have done.

* store all music in the root of the harddrive (to cut down file path size)

* reduce the number of crates.

* make sure all subcrates are closed before exiting sdj. (To speed up load time and not use so much memory)

* try not to use itunes (seems from user tests sdj uses abit more memory to load itunes playlists than serato crates)

* Apple OSX works alot better with memory loads than Microsoft Windows. (So for large library best to move to a macbook)

* get the amount of files down in the sdj library. (Try delete any dublicates and any files you will never play or not very often)

* make sure your laptop has 4gb ram. (So there is always upto 2gb free for sdj to use.

All these things seem to help with using sdj with a larger database.

But yes no one should have todo all that just to get it to work.

The point made of bad files could be a corrupt crate or databasev2 file or corrupt music so its always best to try making new crates and new databasev2 file and make sure no corrupt files then try again if it works then the largedatabase issue was not your problem.

Lets hope they nail it one day.

Cheers.
Martin C 6:32 PM 18 May 2013
Quality post LJ_WOOLSEY.

Might I just add something to this point:

Quote:
* try not to use itunes (seems from user tests sdj uses abit more memory to load itunes playlists than serato crates)


This is especially true in the case of using the "allow iTunes to manage your music" option. iTunes creates longer file paths depending on the tags of your files. As a result the iTunes Music Library.xml becomes larger because there is more information written to it. I found that generally, if Firefox is unable to open the xml as a text file, its unlikely to work very well in Serato sofware too.

If you have to use iTunes, manage where the music is yourself.
DjSyndic8 11:16 PM 18 May 2013
May I add Serato is the Only Dj software that has this problem comparing it to Virtual DJ?
Dj Nyce 1:14 AM 19 May 2013
itunes works perfectly fine. i have been using it since 2003 across 4 different laptops (windows and mac). problems if any, are due to user error and/or bad files.

if serato would make smart crates smarter, maybe more people would stop using itunes. and while you're at it, we shouldn't have to manually add new music. auto-scan a directory on startup.
Kittmaster 1:17 AM 19 May 2013
Quote:
itunes works perfectly fine. i have been using it since 2003 across 4 different laptops (windows and mac). problems if any, are due to user error and/or bad files.

if serato would make smart crates smarter, maybe more people would stop using itunes. and while you're at it, we shouldn't have to manually add new music. auto-scan a directory on startup.


So after 285 responses to this thread....this is the final answer huh?

Thanks.....but you have no idea what your talking about.
Dj Nyce 1:26 AM 19 May 2013
i kinda do
Kittmaster 1:29 AM 19 May 2013
No you kinda don't....or at least what this issue/topic is even about.....even Serato acknowledges the problem......you know more than them huh....I doubt it.
DjSyndic8 3:50 AM 19 May 2013
TRollo.....
armed98 4:59 AM 19 May 2013
DJ Nyce has a very good suggestion as far as how the DB should be handled in later versions,auto scan is a great idea and re-writing the search feature to integrate with spotlight (like other productivity applications do for Mac OS i.e. Alfred, etc...)
Papa Midnight 6:45 AM 19 May 2013
Quote:
itunes works perfectly fine.

Considering the sheer amount of problems that have plagued the PC version since it's inception (news.cnet.com - The response from Apple was which to, and I quote, "boot their machine in Windows' "safe mode" by holding down the Shift key while restarting and temporarily uninstall iTunes."), I humbly disagree.

That said, this from Apple's own KB gave me a laugh: support.apple.com
beisi 8:02 AM 19 May 2013
Quote:
itunes works perfectly fine. i have been using it since 2003 across 4 different laptops (windows and mac). problems if any, are due to user error and/or bad files.


maybe you can share a little more your configuration that this works for you, I struggle to see what 'user error' you speak of, what are you basing this on?

also what do you mean by 'bad files', are you referring to corrupt files? are you suggesting that the reason for SDJ running out of memory is due to trying to process corrupt files?

TBO this does seem a bit a like trolling. Its not like the others on this forum haven't been trying a bunch of different things to resolve this.
beisi 8:02 AM 19 May 2013
Quote:
itunes works perfectly fine. i have been using it since 2003 across 4 different laptops (windows and mac). problems if any, are due to user error and/or bad files.


maybe you can share a little more your configuration that this works for you, I struggle to see what 'user error' you speak of, what are you basing this on?

also what do you mean by 'bad files', are you referring to corrupt files? are you suggesting that the reason for SDJ running out of memory is due to trying to process corrupt files?

TBO this does seem a bit a like trolling. Its not like the others on this forum haven't been trying a bunch of different things to resolve this.
beisi 8:04 AM 19 May 2013
Quote:
itunes works perfectly fine. i have been using it since 2003 across 4 different laptops (windows and mac). problems if any, are due to user error and/or bad files.


maybe you can share a little more your configuration that this works for you, I struggle to see what 'user error' you speak of, what are you basing this on?

also what do you mean by 'bad files', are you referring to corrupt files? are you suggesting that the reason for SDJ running out of memory is due to trying to process corrupt files?

TBO this does seem a bit a like trolling. Its not like the others on this forum haven't been trying a bunch of different things to resolve this.
PSYKO 11:30 AM 19 May 2013
ive got my own thoughts on this issue and also share the opinions of every one here, ive just transitiond from ssl to sdj and was so exited to be changing over, I see controllers being the way of the future (especialy in the fact that you spend a lot less time looking at and touching your computer), they offer so many features that ssl just dosent have, but you can imagine my disappointment to be having crashing issues the day I started using it, then finding out the issues etc and working through them, ive spent the last 5 days with my laptop running round the clock to clean up and reduce my db size and still it crashes im at around 40k songs now, I hope this issue is resolved soon, but until then ill just plod along trying my best to get it to work as best I can, as well as a dj im also a hardcore gamer, I spend a lot of time with computers (not consols) and ive been involved with numerous alpha and beta dev programs, so im used to the frustration of crashes im not going to try to stir the pot or troll anyone, martin c thank you for taking the time to help us as much as you have with this issue.........it was only a few months ago that ssl would crash if you had a cd in the drive a stp back but now its been fixed, development of a qullity product takes time and I respect that, 64bit os's have been around for a while, and I only know of one person on a 32bit system atm.

I was just wondering how many people are using a 64bit system, either mac or windows? surly most users are on 64bit....but I may be wrong

also how bout a beta program that users can opt into? I know it helps game devs a lot... just putting in my 2 cents thanks and hopfully this all gets resoved soon
PSYKO 11:42 AM 19 May 2013
oh and one more thank you too martin c, at least your here helping and acknowledging the problem, there are a lot of software companies out there who just dismiss any problems (if you've ever used steam on a computer and had a problem youll know what I mean) there response is more or less.........were perfect its all your fault. (or they go worse and blame the dev, so you get it direct from the dev and it works floorlessly hahaha)

so thank you for your acknowledgment and help :)
beisi 12:03 PM 19 May 2013
woops, just saw I reposted couple of times by accident, please disregard.
Dj Nyce 3:50 PM 19 May 2013
when i was spinning with a windows laptop i was at about 20 or 30k and no issues across 2 machines. on machine #2 i started with an empty itunes library. even before wiping the library, no issues with itunes or scratch live.

machine 3 and 4, which are macs, the library has not been reset and now i'm at 60k. sdj loads almost faster than ssl.

for kicks i copied the library to a win 7 desktop (custom i7 5ghz) and win 7 dell (latitude e6430 i7). sdj opens as fast as the macs, with and w/out itunes.

now i realize that everyone is not experiencing good performance on win with large db's, but obviously sdj is capable of running large libraries w/out crashing. so now you have to look at what's different. and the only way to do that is with performance tests. start with an empty library (sdj only or itunes). add songs 10k or so at time.

and yes the software should just work and you shouldn't have to jump through hoops, but if you insist on running win you will have to deal with performance problems.
Kittmaster 4:55 PM 19 May 2013
No one is saying you can't get the libraries to "load" if you piece meal it in, but when you approach 80K plus AND have large file paths and the controller plugged in, you can try it six ways to Sunday, full database, empty database, partial database, the hokey pokey database.......it doesn't matter.....it will eventually CRASH. Even if you manage to get all the files loaded in offline mode, when you plug in the controller, it adds another 200KB of memory and tips it over the edge....

You still keep talking about 60K.....some have had success with 50K, sometimes 60K on a MAC....but in the windows world....above those "thresholds" its seems......it crashes. I started seeing this 18 months ago....I'm pretty versed at how the problem is systemic and not file related......SERATO THEMSELVES have proven and see the issue in their dev side and say a fix is forthcoming, so why do you insist on saying there is no problem or telling us how lucky you've been, so the rest of us should just shut up and move along? Have you even read the thread from day one?

I have another 230K samples, tracks, video and loops that I can't use because I can't even get my audio files loaded.....so please, you may be "lucky" up to this point, many of us, as you can see, haven't been so lucky.

If your willing to come to my company location and work it all out for us on your dime, I welcome you along, but here and now.....it crashes and burns.....for you own edification go and find 120K files (from a friend I guess) and try to load em all up along side your "working" 50K library, then report back.

Until then, the problem is pretty well understood.
Papa Midnight 5:45 PM 19 May 2013
Quote:
No one is saying you can't get the libraries to "load" if you piece meal it in, but when you approach 80K plus AND have large file paths and the controller plugged in, you can try it six ways to Sunday, full database, empty database, partial database, the hokey pokey database.......it doesn't matter.....it will eventually CRASH.

Truth.
DeeJay Mark 9:05 PM 19 May 2013
I am not sure why DJ v1.2.0 crashes, but 3 gigs in a row now I have to stop the party and reboot. I use DDJ-SX, Macbook PRO 2.6 Ghz Core 2 Duo, w/8Gigs Ram, ext HD via Firewire 800.

I have the log files of the last crash, where can I send for analysis?

Dj Mark
Aaron E 9:22 PM 19 May 2013
Hey DeeJay Mark

You can open a help request here: serato.com

You can either upload the crash log file to the thread or cut and paste it into the message field.

Cheers
DJ_X_Trodinaire 10:07 PM 19 May 2013
Well... I dont know how else to prove it.
but here is a screen shot of my library.

instagram.com

I use a 2009 macbook pro 17, 8gb ram, 128gb SSD, 4TB External HD Firewire
from Starting Serato to full Library load it takes about 1 min 30mins +/-

I have never had SL, Itch or SDJ crash due to Library size. No Itunes, just Folders.
Yes it is slow searching for songs or scrolling though genre, A-Z sort, scrolling through folders, etc.. But no crash yet.

I did trim down on the Sub folders when Itch first came out.
My Ext HD consist of:
_serato_
_serato Backup_
Music

In my music folder:
Crates
-Sub Crates

I do not go beyond a 3rd level of sub crates. ie sub crates within a sub crates.
And yes I need to cut down on the library. :)
Kittmaster 11:33 PM 19 May 2013
Quote:
Well... I dont know how else to prove it.
but here is a screen shot of my library.

instagram.com

I use a 2009 macbook pro


I stop reading right there (it has been said that MAC seems to run better than windows)......and your image say that it "sync'd" the files and built the subcrates based on the file structure not that they are actually loaded into the software and ready to run....do you have a screen shot that shows all 178K loaded into DJ or ITCH and connected to a controller working?

If it is, that is certainly an interesting data point.

I used to use that tool all the time, and that is when I started running into issues as my libraries grew.

I don't have the ability or desire to try and merge all my stuff into almost no folders so there is no way I can replicate the result.

How do you know what track is from what series?
phatbob 11:38 PM 19 May 2013
Quote:
I don't have the ability or desire to try and merge all my stuff into almost no folders so there is no way I can replicate the result.


Why would folder structure matter at all on your gig laptop/gig drive?

Nobody is suggesting the structure of your home archive should be changed, but surely it's worth doing on your gig machine if you're just using crates or iTunes anyway. Folders are irellevant there.
DJ_X_Trodinaire 12:04 AM 20 May 2013
Quote:

Quote:
Well... I dont know how else to prove it.
but here is a screen shot of my library.

instagram.com

I use a 2009 macbook pro


I stop reading right there (it has been said that MAC seems to run better than windows)......

I started using the mbp late 2010. I owned a toshiba PC before and did not have an issue either. yes the mbp is better :)
Quote:
Do you have a screen shot that shows all 178K loaded into DJ or ITCH and connected to a controller working?

Man that would take time for me to take pictures of each folder! LOL

I would not lie. Trust me, if i did have an issue I would post it on here and complain too.
Wish Serato has an ALL file count then I would show you.

Quote:
How do you know what track is from what series?

Very basic file naming/mp3 tag convention.
My files names: song name-artist-genre
My mp3 tag: song name- artist -album -year - genre.
Once i load my new files into serato I use the comment Field to pick my song choices ie [HH hip hop [DH dance [T4 Top 40 [LD Line dance of course LOL.
I use the color code to let me know if its a Must play (Red) Filler (Green) Filler 2 (Yellow) I guess this can be use like Itunes star system.

I dont use album art <-- maybe could that be an issue?
I use the Album field: to show when i added the music.
I belong to a record pool so i sort weekly I would name my Album 1234 Dance 05-19-2013
at least this is hard coded.

Song Albums does not really matter to me.
My clients/request usually is for a song, not the album.

If I get the urge, I will try to video my folder structure. Nooo guarantee!
Kittmaster 12:05 AM 20 May 2013
Well my work flow is a function of folder driven by series of tracks that I use. So here is a peep of how my workflow goes and has always been, even in vinyl:

www.kittmaster.com

I prefer not to have to dump it all into one folder. I have 7 backups all driven with a sync program I use to ensure I don't lose cue points or lose a track in transit......so there is no way to create my archives and sync my main rig by that suggestion, although I see the thought behind it.
DjSyndic8 1:42 AM 20 May 2013
Quote:


I do not go beyond a 3rd level of sub crates. ie sub crates within a sub crates.
And yes I need to cut down on the library. :)


you might have something here cutting down your subcrates might help?
DJ_X_Trodinaire 2:03 AM 20 May 2013
Quote:

you might have something here cutting down your subcrates might help?


i can tell you that it did help.
The first time Itch was available, I had crazy sub crates within sub crates.
I recall that the library load time was almost insane at 6-8 minutes on my PC Laptop.
I followed some advice to get rid of sub crates and it reduced it to half the time.
I took out more sub crates. And now with the macbookpro, 1 minute 30s is my fastest load time so far. I might purchase a Thunderbolt HD and see if it makes a difference.
Dj Nyce 4:15 AM 20 May 2013
as a quick test i just loaded 120k tracks (122,722 to be exact) in ssl and sdj on a macbook pro. i did this by duplicating my library folder and re-adding it back to itunes.

i'm confident that i can keep going so i'll generate 500k tracks and i'll load them in itunes, ssl and sdj. i just started the script to generate the mp3's. it'll be done by monday night.

i'll load the hokey pokey library on a desktop win and a macbook pro and let you know what i find. i'm confident that 500k will load in sdj without crashing on macbook pro. the win, we'll see.
Martin C 4:16 AM 20 May 2013
Quote:
was just wondering how many people are using a 64bit system, either mac or windows? surly most users are on 64bit....but I may be wrong


I think you are right, most people will be on 64 bit these days. On a side note; this is interesting data: news.cnet.com
LJ_WOOLSEY 9:49 AM 20 May 2013
Quote:
as a quick test i just loaded 120k tracks (122,722 to be exact) in ssl and sdj on a macbook pro. i did this by duplicating my library folder and re-adding it back to itunes.

i'm confident that i can keep going so i'll generate 500k tracks and i'll load them in itunes, ssl and sdj. i just started the script to generate the mp3's. it'll be done by monday night.

i'll load the hokey pokey library on a desktop win and a macbook pro and let you know what i find. i'm confident that 500k will load in sdj without crashing on macbook pro. the win, we'll see.

So you just adding files? Not making playlists in sub folders ect?

I can tell you now no way can i add that many files into serato and it work. All my files are clean good files all videos from good pools.

I have two harddrives.

Main hdd 750gb hybrid 7200rpm
Optobay hdd 750gb 7200rpm 2G.

I do have alot if crates and subcrates tho and this is prob where the work for RAM is all going.

Not using itunes at all.

I don't see how you computers are so magic?

Also are all your files analized after adding them?
Dj Nyce 2:02 PM 20 May 2013
i use itunes smart playlists and only a few crates. i'm not sure what a large number of crates/subcrates will do. all i did was create a new user account, duplicated my music library folder and added both folders to itunes. i let ssl/sdj read it. i did not analyze them as they are already analyzed. i also added both root folders to ssl/sdj w/out itunes.

the os is on an apple ssd and the music hd is a samsung spinpoint m8 1tb @ 5400 rpm in an owc optibay. the only thing on it is audio files. the macbook pro is a late 2011 17" with 16gb of ram.

the folder structure is like this:

/Volumes/Storage/Library/Artist/
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Artist/Album
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Record Pool/Year/Month
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Official Soundtrack/Soundtrack
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Various Artists/Compilation

i'm really curious now what the breaking point will be. i guess i'll know tonite.
PSYKO 2:03 PM 20 May 2013
YAY FINALY SUCESS!!!!

ok so heres what I did, having the same iTunes/large db related crash issues as you guys I set about my work around
1)
I had a db of 60k, mostly due to a hectic show schedual and some initial teething problems with ssl many were doubles, that due to my work load I never had time to sort through throrughly, I use iTunes to work with my music as its easy and easy to get new songs fast at gigs for a low price how ever (this is one of the reasons I had double ups too) I do not let iTunes manage any of my music in any way (it caused me to loose my db 2 hours befor a gig, so I switched to manual control), only link my music into it, my music lives on a self made partition of my main laptop hdd, soley for music

2)
I bought tune up - a handy lil program for deduping and organising music tracks (not a plug, just telling you what program I used)

3)
ran it for 5 days solid, finding missing file names etc and also removing duplicate songs, and deleatng them...........before this step I did a full back up of the entire partition onto an external hdd.

4)
db down to 36k

5)
today I opned up ssl, re analised all tracks - just to be sure

6)
after re analising, I went to the "all..." tab at the top of the crate box, hit select all and copied them to a crate named "full db" thus creating a folder with all files from all crates and all of iTunes (sort of like what you do when re creating a v2 db file)

7)
then I went up to set up and turned "load iTunes" off..........as this also turns the feature off in sdj - love it that ssl and sdj share that setup feature

8)
crossed fingers, toes, eyes, legs, nuts and fader

9)
opened sdj (without controller turned on)

NO CRASH........OOOOOOOOOOOO GETTING CLOSE

10)
turned on ddj-sx

waited........................NO CRASH

11)
woke up family with quick 10 min set, testing music load and a few features etc.............still no crash

then I turned off the controller

now im re analising the db in sdj, for beat grids etc

so far so good, all seams to work, im not loading from iTunes, but I have all my iTunes files in the "full db" folder, now sdj works, dosent crash (so far) and I still have my full db from ssl.....more or less

so im happy, I know its not perfect and its taken 6 and a half days but I got there in the end, hope some of you found/find this usefull

good luck getting yours sorted, oh also load time is under 20sec's so im pretty happy

thanks to all who posted and ofcorse the serato staff, took ideas from all of you to get mine to work

good luck guys!

p.s. this post is not ment to offend any one or show off, im just simply explaining what I did to get it to work successfully, windows 7 64bit, I7 quad, 8gb bla bla bla

thanks guys
Papa Midnight 2:46 PM 20 May 2013
Quote:
i use itunes smart playlists and only a few crates. i'm not sure what a large number of crates/subcrates will do.

Since you're working with a duplicated database (from what I read), please do me a favor as a test because I suspect you don't have much in the way of crates.

Create several generic crates
Under each of those crates, create several subcrates
Under those subcrates, add a few more subcrates.

(We want to do a solid test so the idea is to basically fill about 60-90 or so crates with music here based on everyone's experiences). No smart crates unless you want to add those too.

Start adding each and everyone those music tracks to each of their respective crates / subcrates.

If no crash, Close ITCH / SDJ.

Restart it.

Let me know what happens, how many crates / subcrates you created, library total size, _Serato_ directory size, etc.
Papa Midnight 2:47 PM 20 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
was just wondering how many people are using a 64bit system, either mac or windows? surly most users are on 64bit....but I may be wrong


I think you are right, most people will be on 64 bit these days. On a side note; this is interesting data: news.cnet.com

Why in the blue hell are people still using Windows XP at a rate of 39% of Market Share...
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:57 PM 20 May 2013
Quote:
i use itunes smart playlists and only a few crates. i'm not sure what a large number of crates/subcrates will do. all i did was create a new user account, duplicated my music library folder and added both folders to itunes. i let ssl/sdj read it. i did not analyze them as they are already analyzed. i also added both root folders to ssl/sdj w/out itunes.

the os is on an apple ssd and the music hd is a samsung spinpoint m8 1tb @ 5400 rpm in an owc optibay. the only thing on it is audio files. the macbook pro is a late 2011 17" with 16gb of ram.

the folder structure is like this:

/Volumes/Storage/Library/Artist/
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Artist/Album
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Record Pool/Year/Month
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Official Soundtrack/Soundtrack
/Volumes/Storage/Library/Various Artists/Compilation

i'm really curious now what the breaking point will be. i guess i'll know tonite.


Ok so you have low amount of playlists

Small file paths

And not reanalyzed files.

The databasev2 file will hold extra info on each track when analyzing (so as you did not do this your v2 file will be smaller) less RAM useage.

You do not have loads playlists and subplaylists so again low RAM useage.

The issue really lays with the databasev2 from all the user feedback and tests done so far. Like i said itunes big libraries can be loaded to all other dj software but not itch/sdj. In VDJ you can also load serato crates and still run fine. Itch/sdj you cant but can in ssl.

Other users have said the only way they can load there large libraries is to delete the databasev2 file before opening itch/sdj.

If you just dump all your files into the all crate analyze then shut sdj then delete databasev2 and then reopen it loads fine with very large amount of music.

Nyce can you try analyzing in sdj with those files and then see what resaults you have.

Think we are all helping to narrow this issue down.
Kittmaster 2:58 PM 20 May 2013
While it sounds like a plan and nice to see some new development, to ask anyone to just chuck their organization and file naming out the window seems a bit off the deep end for me.

I like my tracks labeled as I showed in my image above, I like having everything organized by type/issue/label......in my work flow, there is no way to screw up the tracks and if my meta data gets trashed, I can restore it from the file name.......redundancy.....why should I have to toss all of that?

It has been mentioned several times, the MAC tends to do better......show me the same results on the windows side of things with crates and subcrates and it will be more a valid test....IMO.

Nice work to those have put the time in.....thank you for your efforts!

Regards,
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:20 PM 20 May 2013
It 100% is better on mac than windows end of! Is one of the reasons people went from pc to mac in itch.

My pc wont work at all with half the library on the mac.
Papa Midnight 3:23 PM 20 May 2013
Quote:
The databasev2 file will hold extra info on each track when analyzing (so as you did not do this your v2 file will be smaller) less RAM useage.

You do not have loads playlists and subplaylists so again low RAM useage.

The issue really lays with the databasev2 from all the user feedback and tests done so far.

Truth.
PSYKO 2:59 AM 21 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
was just wondering how many people are using a 64bit system, either mac or windows? surly most users are on 64bit....but I may be wrong




I think you are right, most people will be on 64 bit these days. On a side note; this is interesting data: news.cnet.com


Why in the blue hell are people still using Windows XP at a rate of 39% of Market Share...



yeah thats crazy! still I know in the higher windows os's like ultimate, they run the windows xp 32bit architecture underneath the 64b win 7 system, for super mega compatibility, with everything, gotta love 7 tho, it realy works so well, 8 sucks, I hate the word "app"
Papa Midnight 3:19 AM 21 May 2013
Quote:
they run the windows xp 32bit architecture underneath the 64b win 7 system, for super mega compatibility, with everything

Not true. It's virtualised in Virtual PC 2007 on Windows 7 Professional and higher; and only if you download the add-on.

Quote:
it realy works so well, 8 sucks

Eh... I'd disagree. 8's got it's quirks but it's really NOT a bad operating system. Now Windows Me... there's an OS that sucks.
PSYKO 3:49 AM 21 May 2013
hahahaha cant argue there!

ok new problem has developed

ive been analising the db on serato dj, and all has been going well

until

"processing 30480 of 36966 files"

I get this message

serato dj
not enough storage is available to process the command.


what the hell does that mean, whole thing has now crashed it was working fine and has been all day while analysing, no problems at, all, then 7k from having sorted all files it crashes wtf!
Kittmaster 12:15 PM 21 May 2013
Quote:
ok new problem has developed

ive been analising the db on serato dj, and all has been going well

until

"processing 30480 of 36966 files"

I get this message

serato dj
not enough storage is available to process the command.


what the hell does that mean, whole thing has now crashed it was working fine and has been all day while analysing, no problems at, all, then 7k from having sorted all files it crashes wtf!


You've got to be kidding right?.....A "new" problem? Really?

What do you think this whole thread is about........?

It's the same damn message as to what this entire thread is a about........my god, don't people pay any attention to anything anymore?

And oh.....WELCOME TO OUR WORLD....AND PROBLEMS......enjoy the ride.
nik39 12:27 PM 21 May 2013
Quote:
as a quick test i just loaded 120k tracks (122,722 to be exact) in ssl and sdj on a macbook pro. i did this by duplicating my library folder and re-adding it back to itunes.

i'm confident that i can keep going so i'll generate 500k tracks and i'll load them in itunes, ssl and sdj. i just started the script to generate the mp3's. it'll be done by monday night.

i'll load the hokey pokey library on a desktop win and a macbook pro and let you know what i find. i'm confident that 500k will load in sdj without crashing on macbook pro. the win, we'll see.

Make sure you add crates containing this amount of tracks.
DjSyndic8 1:08 PM 21 May 2013
Quote:
hahahaha cant argue there!

ok new problem has developed

ive been analising the db on serato dj, and all has been going well

until

"processing 30480 of 36966 files"

I get this message

serato dj
not enough storage is available to process the command.


what the hell does that mean, whole thing has now crashed it was working fine and has been all day while analysing, no problems at, all, then 7k from having sorted all files it crashes wtf!


looks like it has come across a corrupt file .
Kittmaster 1:28 PM 21 May 2013
How can it be a corrupt file when he just said it was working fine before.
DJ Quartz 2:28 PM 21 May 2013
I have run into this problem with previously working files, they were corrupt.

Moved them into a 'bad files' folder and removed them from my collection.

Ran the analysis process again and everything was good.
Papa Midnight 2:35 PM 21 May 2013
Quote:
I have run into this problem with previously working files, they were corrupt.

Moved them into a 'bad files' folder and removed them from my collection.

Ran the analysis process again and everything was good.

+1
djshorzy69 2:38 PM 21 May 2013
it did that to me too and I have no corrupt files,id tried it over on 3 laptops and everytime it stopped at 36000 with same message,so I uninstalled everthing renamed some folders picked top songs im gonna use under 36000 to analyze them in serato dj,then dragged others in virtual decks to analyze one at a time upon requests,until serato figures out what the hell to do
DJ Quartz 8:15 PM 22 May 2013
Just did a synchronize after adding some new tracks.

I currently have 81,000+ tracks right now.
Kittmaster 12:48 AM 23 May 2013
and your crate and subcrate structure looks like..........?

Or are they just all dumped into one or two crates?
prizo 3:24 PM 23 May 2013
I had alot of problems with this guys. After extensive troubleshooting and research I have concluded...


- The database problems stems from limitations in the overall database structure of ssl, itch, sdj

- sdj and itch are more prone to limitations due to more on memory usage

- the best way to fix is to delete files from library as much as possible (can keep songs in folder on hd when, when needed add to library) and limit crates

- going to take a long time till this issue is corrected, if you don't like switch to traktor


I know this is not the answer u want to hear and I actually downloaded traktor demo and was ready to switch. At the end of day, I do alot of mobile gigs and it just doesn't pay for me to go through the process of learning a new program. Down the road, I would like to play with traktor to compare pros and cons, but for now it was easier to do what I said above and just keep it moving.

Just my two cents...
DJ_X_Trodinaire 4:03 PM 23 May 2013
[Quote]

- the best way to fix is to delete files from library as much as possible (can keep songs in folder on hd when, when needed add to library) and limit crates

Just my two cents...
You know, that is not a bad idea!

I will have to try that. Must have files loaded on serato and the just in case files sitting in HD.
Kittmaster 5:12 PM 23 May 2013
That work great for everyone EXCEPT those that use NS7 and V7's for their gigs.......<raises hands to both controller types>

Welcome to 18 months ago's answer to your research.
Phuture2 6:33 PM 23 May 2013
A library is meant to have your tracks there when you need them. It is unbelievable that we have to adjust or delte tracks to make abrand new program work. That is what R&D is for from Serato BEFORE the program is released. That to me is a BS easy way out Serato. I have posted a thread with a similar issue and was told the same thing. Not happy. Going to move onto another program.
DjSyndic8 10:43 PM 23 May 2013
Quote:
A library is meant to have your tracks there when you need them. It is unbelievable that we have to adjust or delte tracks to make abrand new program work. That is what R&D is for from Serato BEFORE the program is released. That to me is a BS easy way out Serato. I have posted a thread with a similar issue and was told the same thing. Not happy. Going to move onto another program.


True dat Bro

Like I said before Serato is the only software with this problem and yet Serato does not see this as a high priority for them to fix because if they did then SeratoDJ would not have this problem
DJ Quartz 11:02 PM 23 May 2013
To answer the previous question. I have many folders and sub-folders.

I use Alchemie Zinc to synchronize my database and it just works for me.
beisi 10:57 AM 29 May 2013
so... I guess no news is good news

some kind of fix/improvement must be imminent on this right?

three years worth of development reworking and refining code, figuring out new ways to enhance memory performance to make SDJ the best rock solid reliable professional DJ software it can be
DjSyndic8 11:34 AM 29 May 2013
Quote:
so... I guess no news is good news

some kind of fix/improvement must be imminent on this right?

three years worth of development reworking and refining code, figuring out new ways to enhance memory performance to make SDJ the best rock solid reliable professional DJ software it can be


Problems will be Fixed If Serato Made a 64Bit version for the window users
Papa Midnight 1:53 PM 29 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
so... I guess no news is good news

some kind of fix/improvement must be imminent on this right?

three years worth of development reworking and refining code, figuring out new ways to enhance memory performance to make SDJ the best rock solid reliable professional DJ software it can be


Problems will be Fixed If Serato Made a 64Bit version for the window users

If only. The problem will be fixed when Serato products can address more than 24-bits of space and actually address the full 32-bit the program is supposed to be able to in the first place.
B Shabazz 10:32 AM 30 May 2013
Just fired up my brand new Pioneer DDJ SX. Start to load my library (60K songs), and it crashes. Open back up and decide I'll just import one folder (my Hip Hop), crashes. Whatever I seem to do it crashes.

Open up VDJ, works like a charm. What a shame.
Have an HP DV7 running windows 7 home premium edition
6GB Ram
i5 processor 2.83 ghz
500 GB HD

Have never had Traktor or Virtual DJ crash on me. I can't use this software which is one of the main reasons I bought the DDJ SX. I may take it back and continue using my Denon DN MC6000 which works fine with Traktor and VDJ. People laugh when I use VDJ but it works like a charm. This is my first experience with Serato and it is a complete joke and an utter disappointment.
taump 3:06 PM 30 May 2013
Yikes this thing just wont go away and it doesn't get the attention it deserves....i have both Serato DJ (on Pioneer DDJ-SX) and Scratch Live on Rane 62 same issue they all cant handle large libraries......i echo the sentiments of all - please fix this now already? Delete files from library -AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!!! You want the truth Serato cant handle the the truth (large files!!) ..just frustrated and had to say something
mr187 5:38 PM 30 May 2013
Quote:
Just fired up my brand new Pioneer DDJ SX. Start to load my library (60K songs), and it crashes. Open back up and decide I'll just import one folder (my Hip Hop), crashes. Whatever I seem to do it crashes.

Open up VDJ, works like a charm. What a shame.
Have an HP DV7 running windows 7 home premium edition
6GB Ram
i5 processor 2.83 ghz
500 GB HD

Have never had Traktor or Virtual DJ crash on me. I can't use this software which is one of the main reasons I bought the DDJ SX. I may take it back and continue using my Denon DN MC6000 which works fine with Traktor and VDJ. People laugh when I use VDJ but it works like a charm. This is my first experience with Serato and it is a complete joke and an utter disappointment.


I had that problem also download scratch live analyze all your songs after that Delete all files that have the corrupt lightning symbol, then delete all zero lenth files close SSL open itch if it still crashes, delete your _Serato_ folder in music folder open SDJ and VDJ or SDJ and Traktor And Just Drag your songs from the other program to your Decks in SDJ and enjoy. This workaround works for me.

Quote:
Yikes this thing just wont go away and it doesn't get the attention it deserves....i have both Serato DJ (on Pioneer DDJ-SX) and Scratch Live on Rane 62 same issue they all cant handle large libraries......i echo the sentiments of all - please fix this now already? Delete files from library -AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT!!! You want the truth Serato cant handle the the truth (large files!!) ..just frustrated and had to say something


Thats not entirely true SSL can hold a extremely large library. I loaded over a million tracks just for fun to took a long time to load them but it didn't crash this was on Mac may be different on pc . :)
Phuture2 8:09 PM 30 May 2013
This problem is getting more and more popular. They Need to fix this issue. There is going to be alot of DDJ-SX units to be resold.
FabulousFrequencies 8:30 PM 30 May 2013
Quote:
There is going to be alot of DDJ-SX units to be resold.


That's fine, the DX users could use a new controller with Serato support.
mr187 8:33 PM 30 May 2013
I know I was upset also but I found this workaround that works for me.
It probably won't be fixed until 64 bit. or if SDJ stop loading the v2 database file to ram.
Phuture2 8:35 PM 30 May 2013
what was your work around?
mr187 8:37 PM 30 May 2013
put all my music in traktor and just drag and drop to Itch decks from Traktor
Phuture2 8:38 PM 30 May 2013
i see was going to try to drop it from ssl while DJ was open. since i dont have traktor
mr187 8:40 PM 30 May 2013
use vdj there is a home edition which is free. SSL won't work since SSL and SDJ and Itch use the same datadase.
Phuture2 8:41 PM 30 May 2013
ok will try that thanks
FabulousFrequencies 8:50 PM 30 May 2013
Curious, what database system are they using? It's clearly shared. Anyone know?
beisi 8:24 AM 31 May 2013
if the main problem is running out of memory isn't having another DJ app open potentially making things worse?
mr187 9:02 AM 31 May 2013
not if you have 4 gb of ram or more SDJ can't use more than 1.7 gb ram that is the main problem the more songs you have the more ram is eaten. and crash after 1.7 gb ram.
taump 11:55 AM 31 May 2013
So this workaround using tractor or vdj ... Really 2 apps coz the one we love can't handle databases has anyone done this in the wild (club/wedding)...seems like a crash waiting to happen .if I have to drag songs between two DJ apps/screens then I am out with Serato.

I want to hear a response from Serato on when this gets fixed or maybe they don't care anymore ?
DjSyndic8 12:14 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
So this workaround using tractor or vdj ... Really 2 apps coz the one we love can't handle databases has anyone done this in the wild (club/wedding)...seems like a crash waiting to happen .if I have to drag songs between two DJ apps/screens then I am out with Serato.

I want to hear a response from Serato on when this gets fixed or maybe they don't care anymore ?


it has been noted by Serato Mods Many a times I was the original one and only Dj that bought this problem to there attention, The problem is there is only a minority of DJ's that have this problem, and the Majority do not, this is why Serato are not addressing this problem, my simple workaround for me was to invest in a Mac book pro and it never have this problem,
taump 1:16 PM 31 May 2013
I have a MacBook Pro 2.4 ghz 8gb ram and still have the problem. Not sure if the the fact that the majority of Djs don't have this problem is necessarily true ... I for example have gone back and forth and almost giving up on asking for this... Also serato did confirm they know this is an issue so regardless of the minority of DJs it still needs to be fixed ...
Papa Midnight 2:30 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
I have a MacBook Pro 2.4 ghz 8gb ram and still have the problem. Not sure if the the fact that the majority of Djs don't have this problem is necessarily true ... I for example have gone back and forth and almost giving up on asking for this... Also serato did confirm they know this is an issue so regardless of the minority of DJs it still needs to be fixed ...

No offense to the guys who have helped us out here, but Serato confirmed that they know of the Numark V7 fader start issue too...
DjSyndic8 2:39 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
I have a MacBook Pro 2.4 ghz 8gb ram and still have the problem. Not sure if the the fact that the majority of Djs don't have this problem is necessarily true


what I meant was a small group of Dj's with this problem is not big enough for Serato to act on this issue, But let say a huge amount of Djs logging this in as an issue then maybe Serato will fix it,

the thing is don't wait for Serato, you have to try different workarounds I have had this problem since Itch 1.5 and I have done a lot of reading on line and tested out different scenarios with my music collection ie. cleaning out my database removing tracks that I would never play , reincoding all my tracks to mp3 320kbps, renaming my tracks, removing corrupt files, etc

the first time I told Serato that I had this problem they convinced me that it was something else but how I found out that it was an Itch problem is because I had tested it on Scratch live and had no issues but everytime I opened Itch it would crash,

all I'm saying is don't hold your breath with serato fixing ths issue
DJ Quartz 2:47 PM 31 May 2013
This is a really strange issue now.

I had a problem on Windows but never had the problem on my Macbook Pro.

I'm almost ready to start a spreadsheet and have everyone all their OS, Machine Type, Amount of Tracks and Amount of Ram, CPU Type just to get a poll.

A few people have mentioned they are having problems with analyzing crashing as well, however there is a way to find out the song it crashed on in case you need to move it for troubleshooting purposes.
DjSyndic8 2:49 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
I'm almost ready to start a spreadsheet and have everyone all their OS, Machine Type, Amount of Tracks and Amount of Ram, CPU Type just to get a poll.


Brilliant Idea bro Do it:)
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:52 PM 31 May 2013
Nice idea but it still is about serato software getting to a max of 1.2gb-1.7gb then crashing.. On a mac it is alot harder to push serato to use that much ram. On windows its very easy.

Also things like SP-6 / Multi FX / Settings in setup all add to ram usage so still hard to narrow it down. Serato needs to work on letting there software use more of the computers available ram. That would solve alot of users issues.
DjSyndic8 3:00 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
Nice idea but it still is about serato software getting to a max of 1.2gb-1.7gb then crashing.. On a mac it is alot harder to push serato to use that much ram. On windows its very easy.

Also things like SP-6 / Multi FX / Settings in setup all add to ram usage so still hard to narrow it down. Serato needs to work on letting there software use more of the computers available ram. That would solve alot of users issues.


yes but on Mac it is more stable because its a 64bit version of Serato DJ/Itch

but on windows its only a 32bit version of Itch/Serato DJ
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:13 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Nice idea but it still is about serato software getting to a max of 1.2gb-1.7gb then crashing.. On a mac it is alot harder to push serato to use that much ram. On windows its very easy.

Also things like SP-6 / Multi FX / Settings in setup all add to ram usage so still hard to narrow it down. Serato needs to work on letting there software use more of the computers available ram. That would solve alot of users issues.


yes but on Mac it is more stable because its a 64bit version of Serato DJ/Itch

but on windows its only a 32bit version of Itch/Serato DJ


No it is not! it's 32bit app on both Microsoft Windows and Apple Macintosh OSX.
Papa Midnight 3:38 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nice idea but it still is about serato software getting to a max of 1.2gb-1.7gb then crashing.. On a mac it is alot harder to push serato to use that much ram. On windows its very easy.

Also things like SP-6 / Multi FX / Settings in setup all add to ram usage so still hard to narrow it down. Serato needs to work on letting there software use more of the computers available ram. That would solve alot of users issues.


yes but on Mac it is more stable because its a 64bit version of Serato DJ/Itch

but on windows its only a 32bit version of Itch/Serato DJ


No it is not! it's 32bit app on both Microsoft Windows and Apple Macintosh OSX.

Indeed. Both applications are 32-bit binaries on OS X as well.
FabulousFrequencies 4:49 PM 31 May 2013
There is a man on another forum area who said the only thing that changed between day 1 of it working, and day 2 of it crashing was a Firefox update.. LOL. The only correlation I could draw between the two is the use of plugin containers and XML rendering. Perhaps a common shared module is updated in the process?

Mozilla is present sporadically across OS's, and some of those OS's connect to the internet for automatic updates of the browser, while some have disabled internet access on their rigs so it would never update. Bizarre but interesting enough to curiously pursue.

Nobody will tell me what database they build v2 in? Anyone??
Kittmaster 5:55 PM 31 May 2013
I don't use firefox......at all...still same old story crash....so that ain't it.
FabulousFrequencies 6:09 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
I don't use firefox......at all...still same old story crash....so that ain't it.


You don't need to use it, it just needs to be installed and updating when you connect to the internet for your Serato downloads, for example. But if someone can name the database system used, there are ways to force _some_ into a higher memory ceiling. If it could help people, it never hurts to try.
LJ_WOOLSEY 6:24 PM 31 May 2013
How would having firefox stop serato software from using more than 1.2-1.7gb RAM?

I have tried fresh windows install from oem disc and still same issue.

It really is just the software.

Like i have said you can use itunes and serato crates in VDJ totally fine.
Kittmaster 6:34 PM 31 May 2013
i.e........it ISN'T INSTALLED on my machine.........like as in AT ALL.....as in ......does not exist.......so therefore, is NOT the issue (for me at least).
FabulousFrequencies 6:37 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
How would having firefox stop serato software from using more than 1.2-1.7gb RAM


It's just open speculation, but a program can set database defaults that end up global and some modules installed by the OS end up shared. I wouldn't read much into it, it's just open talk and what one person experienced. I can't seem to get any information about the database used and i'm not going fishing for it right now.
Papa Midnight 6:59 PM 31 May 2013
I think we can all agree that Serato's database issues have nothing to do with whether or not the Firefox browser is present on a person's computer.
Kittmaster 7:00 PM 31 May 2013
Yes, exactly.
mr187 7:10 PM 31 May 2013
if serato would not load the whole database to ram maybe it woulnt crash
Papa Midnight 7:19 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
if serato would not load the whole database to ram maybe it woulnt crash

If SSL/DJ/ITCH would allocate more than 24-bits of addressing space, maybe it wouldn't crash.
Kittmaster 7:36 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
if serato would not load the whole database to ram maybe it woulnt crash


How would you selectively divy that up then? What happens when you click "all" to search?.....did you really think it through?
mr187 7:42 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
Quote:
if serato would not load the whole database to ram maybe it woulnt crash


How would you selectively divy that up then? What happens when you click "all" to search?.....did you really think it through?


load it as needed like traktor do.
Kittmaster 8:08 PM 31 May 2013
You read the word "ALL"........right?

That would in essence lead you right back to the issue at hand.
mr187 8:25 PM 31 May 2013
yeah Traktor can do all search without whole database loaded. so can VDJ.
Papa Midnight 8:38 PM 31 May 2013
Quote:
yeah Traktor can do all search without whole database loaded. so can VDJ.

On the contrary, I know for a fact that Virtual DJ does directory recursion and stores the location of each music file in a flat file database.

On top of that, it loads the ID3 tags into the browser each time you change directories which utterly decimates low performance machines with large directories / crates.

Frying pan -> Fire.
PSYKO 12:12 AM 1 June 2013
Quote:
I'm almost ready to start a spreadsheet and have everyone all their OS, Machine Type, Amount of Tracks and Amount of Ram, CPU Type just to get a poll.


awesome idea, id definatly send my info in, start up a new thread and post a link, lets get it started!!
Phuture2 1:26 AM 1 June 2013
Sign me up. I am ready to join.
PSYKO 5:04 AM 1 June 2013
also id add to the spreadsheet if a successful work around was discovered

ill kick it off

PC
Make: ASUS
OS: win7 home premium 64-bit
CPU: i7 - 2630qm 2.00GHz (OC to 2.9GHz)
Cores: 4 + 8 threads
RAM: 8GB DDR3
Controller: DDJ-SX
DB Size: per fix 60k, post fix 37k
Successful Work Around: yes

anything I missed?
dj-nice 11:52 AM 1 June 2013
Quote:
anything I missed?


the problems only depends on:
amount of crates and subcates
amount of tracks in crates and sub crates
amount of tracks in all

mostly all the machine spec are not relevant.
LJ_WOOLSEY 12:07 PM 1 June 2013
So to load sdj all we need is the _Serato_ folder so could we not all send serato are _serato_ folder to see if it crashes on there windows and mac computers, they can also work on fixing the issue with having test large databases to work with. Surly it be helpfull to them to have all this info.
DjSyndic8 1:36 AM 2 June 2013
Ok have you guys tried to put say 20 medleys Mixcds, in a folder (Long as tracks that are over an hour long) and then tried to scan them on Itch or Serato dj, on windows this always crashed , but on Mac it doesn't, have you guys come across this issue
maviccf 1:44 AM 2 June 2013
Quote:
Ok have you guys tried to put say 20 medleys Mixcds, in a folder (Long as tracks that are over an hour long) and then tried to scan them on Itch or Serato dj, on windows this always crashed , but on Mac it doesn't, have you guys come across this issue

Excellent point, all you need is one file not accesible or compatible or simply too large to crash the software or the OS.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:32 AM 2 June 2013
Quote:
Ok have you guys tried to put say 20 medleys Mixcds, in a folder (Long as tracks that are over an hour long) and then tried to scan them on Itch or Serato dj, on windows this always crashed , but on Mac it doesn't, have you guys come across this issue

No i have never ever seen that issue in any serato software on windows or mac. UNLESS it was a dodgy file.
maviccf 4:22 AM 2 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
As I mentioned before, the issue is on your files, if you have too many, it is hard to narrow down wich ones are causing the problem.
Cheers


Not true at all. It is an issue with the software!

Lots of nice workarounds people have done.

* store all music in the root of the harddrive (to cut down file path size)

* reduce the number of crates.

* make sure all subcrates are closed before exiting sdj. (To speed up load time and not use so much memory)

* try not to use itunes (seems from user tests sdj uses abit more memory to load itunes playlists than serato crates)

* Apple OSX works alot better with memory loads than Microsoft Windows. (So for large library best to move to a macbook)

* get the amount of files down in the sdj library. (Try delete any dublicates and any files you will never play or not very often)

* make sure your laptop has 4gb ram. (So there is always upto 2gb free for sdj to use.

All these things seem to help with using sdj with a larger database.

But yes no one should have todo all that just to get it to work.

The point made of bad files could be a corrupt crate or databasev2 file or corrupt music so its always best to try making new crates and new databasev2 file and make sure no corrupt files then try again if it works then the largedatabase issue was not your problem.

Lets hope they nail it one day.

Cheers.

I dont think you are entitle to call my workaround untrue.
it is totally correct that there is a software issue, but since a narrowed down my corrupted files and folders and replaced them, I have been able tu run 4 different controllers on 4 different lap tops, all posibles combinations. (40 000 files)
If you have an specific scenario where you have absolute control is understandable. But that fact does not make untrue or useless the efforts of others users trying to make this work and share the knowledge if it works.
There is an issue with Serato + there is the human error + computer error.
I have been using Serato since ITCH 1.5 and I always found the issue for my specific scenario. I tried new V2 database even brand new libraries, and nothing worked until I found the corrupted files and deleted them or replaced them with new ones
good luck guys
dj-nice 8:59 AM 3 June 2013
you can Crash Serato DJ with a big database without having at least on single mp3 file.
Its just a bug that causes kind of RAM overflow
B Shabazz 9:48 AM 3 June 2013
I give up. Spent way too much time this weekend trying various workarounds. I have the pro version of virtual dj and downloaded a very cool ddj sx skin. Hasn't crashed yet. Serato holla back at me when you get your act together. I've got too many career defining gigs coming up where I need access to my full collection and can't afford the embarrassment of crashing.
dj lashes 11:11 AM 3 June 2013
just spent the last 20mins reading here the cat fight with DJNitro & Papa Midnight plus guest ref Phatbob was somehow funny ,...... well anyway i dont clam to be a computer genius but i can find my way around most say i did have the same issue back in the day with my PC and in the end the only way around it seem to be when i got a MAC and am not saying this is the answer but it worked i dont think ive had a crash since and the only drop out was when my usb cable got pulled out by this dj unplugging his laptop..

I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.
DjSyndic8 12:22 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
just spent the last 20mins reading here the cat fight with DJNitro & Papa Midnight plus guest ref Phatbob was somehow funny ,...... well anyway i dont clam to be a computer genius but i can find my way around most say i did have the same issue back in the day with my PC and in the end the only way around it seem to be when i got a MAC and am not saying this is the answer but it worked i dont think ive had a crash since and the only drop out was when my usb cable got pulled out by this dj unplugging his laptop..

I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.


I Agree bro If you are a pro DJ u should be rocking a Mac book
DjSyndic8 12:24 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
I give up. Spent way too much time this weekend trying various workarounds. I have the pro version of virtual dj and downloaded a very cool ddj sx skin. Hasn't crashed yet. Serato holla back at me when you get your act together. I've got too many career defining gigs coming up where I need access to my full collection and can't afford the embarrassment of crashing.


wow you spent a weekend then u gave up, I spent 2 years and finally made the decision to buy a Mac I never have any problems now.
Papa Midnight 1:09 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.


I Agree bro If you are a pro DJ u should be rocking a Mac book

So, when you experience the spinning pinwheel of doom, who do you blame?

Serious question.
B Shabazz 1:11 PM 3 June 2013
Why have a windows version if it doesn't work. Why do Traktor and VDJ work perfectly fine? Too many excuses are being made. Been rocking a PC just fine for many years and never had an issue until SDJ.
DjSyndic8 1:24 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.


I Agree bro If you are a pro DJ u should be rocking a Mac book

So, when you experience the spinning pinwheel of doom, who do you blame?

Serious question.


umm its a spinning beachball that means that it will come right in 2 secs and thats all ive been getting beautifull spinning beach ball
Papa Midnight 1:29 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Why have a windows version if it doesn't work.

Maximum market penetration.

That said, the number of issues with the Windows binary are much to prevalent and have existed for far to long. I seriously doubt there is anything that is planned to be done about it.

Don't get me wrong, the OS X binary shares many of the same issues (i.e.: Database management, some minor bugs, etc.), but only on the Windows binary, for example, do you have a program that you can set to 60fps, and it barely run at 30fps (I point to the request which has been around for years to support GPU acceleration on the Windows side).

I'm also curious why the Windows binary requires Quicktime to do perform video or aac playback, when Windows has native support for both MPEG4 formats and Quicktime's horrid Windows port only introduces more problems.

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I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.


I Agree bro If you are a pro DJ u should be rocking a Mac book

So, when you experience the spinning pinwheel of doom, who do you blame?

Serious question.


umm its a spinning beachball that means that it will come right in 2 secs and thats all ive been getting beautifull spinning beach ball

So... you get a spinning pinwheel (en.wikipedia.org - discussions.apple.com), but it's working perfectly?
DJ UZzy 1:48 PM 3 June 2013
hello, i need an advise , am intend to buy a ddj-sx soon, since its a serato dj software , but how i will be able to broadcast a live show from a radio station or web broadcasting from this serato controller? as Tracktor and virtual dj have the option to broadcast and to configure, including a live voice animation from voice. but on serato i cant find it. Hope u can help me about this thanks.

Also i would like to know if Pioneer has already Fix the microphone hardware issues so that i dont get distorted probs. and would like to know if there is a way to record my live animation thru any records live. and want to add effect live via the ddj-sx as most of controller does .. such as ddj-s1, if this cant be done on ddj-sx then it will be useless to have an ddj-sx ! or wish it can be added in the software in the future updates.
Papa Midnight 1:54 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
hello, i need an advise , am intend to buy a ddj-sx soon, since its a serato dj software , but how i will be able to broadcast a live show from a radio station or web broadcasting from this serato controller? as Tracktor and virtual dj have the option to broadcast and to configure, including a live voice animation from voice. but on serato i cant find it. Hope u can help me about this thanks.

There is no option within Serato itself. You will need to use a Shoutcast DSP or something similar and a line-level input.

Another user may be able to help you with the Pioneer question.
mr187 2:08 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
you can Crash Serato DJ with a big database without having at least on single mp3 file.
Its just a bug that causes kind of RAM overflow

no mp3's ? you have a serious memory leak issue going on


Quote:
I give up. Spent way too much time this weekend trying various workarounds. I have the pro version of virtual dj and downloaded a very cool ddj sx skin. Hasn't crashed yet. Serato holla back at me when you get your act together. I've got too many career defining gigs coming up where I need access to my full collection and can't afford the embarrassment of crashing.


I have the pro VDJ also, weird thing is I can have Serato running in the background analyzing files while djing with vdj on ns7 and no hickups chokes dropouts or anything.
Papa Midnight 2:58 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:

Quote:
you can Crash Serato DJ with a big database without having at least on single mp3 file.
Its just a bug that causes kind of RAM overflow

no mp3's ? you have a serious memory leak issue going on

I'm not sure you understand what a memory leak is.
Kittmaster 3:50 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
I'm not sure you understand what a memory leak is.


Agreed.
beisi 3:50 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Why have a windows version if it doesn't work. Why do Traktor and VDJ work perfectly fine? Too many excuses are being made. Been rocking a PC just fine for many years and never had an issue until SDJ.


Agreed, end of the day it's very simple, SDJ is a memory hog, Traktor uses less and I would assert is written better.

General advice here is to get over it and get used to it. Downsize or take whatever other memory gains that can be had by switching to macosx. I think this really sucks, never had to consider such a thing with the competition.

I wonder what % of the total user base of SSL/Itch/SDJ are on PC? It's a shame to be considered not 'pro' enough to warrant priority to rework/fix this.

...

negativity aside, imagine that Serato actually managed to put out a 64bit version before traktor did, that would be a massive feather in their cap, would totally cement the whole rock solid image regardless of platform. Seems like it would be a better use of resources than mucking around trying to make small memory gains on 32 bit.

Assuming that it is inordinately difficult to make small memory gains on windows
DJ UZzy 5:08 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
hello, i need an advise , am intend to buy a ddj-sx soon, since its a serato dj software , but how i will be able to broadcast a live show from a radio station or web broadcasting from this serato controller? as Tracktor and virtual dj have the option to broadcast and to configure, including a live voice animation from voice. but on serato i cant find it. Hope u can help me about this thanks.

There is no option within Serato itself. You will need to use a Shoutcast DSP or something similar and a line-level input.

Another user may be able to help you with the Pioneer question.



Thanks PapaMidnight :)
dj lashes 11:20 PM 3 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I see my self as a professional DJ (I GET PAID GOOD BUCKS LOL) and if 1000 -1500euros on a MACPRO can save my set/gig and not having me look like a jack ass when the music stops bye windows... (right now i got 2 mac with a 3rd on the way) no turning back.


I Agree bro If you are a pro DJ u should be rocking a Mac book

So, when you experience the spinning pinwheel of doom, who do you blame?

Serious question.

have not had that yet with serato itch or dj so let just say i get 1 or 2 times a year that sound better then total melt down every show with windows so in that case i welcome the pinwheel with open arms a coke and a smile....
PSYKO 1:34 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
hello, i need an advise , am intend to buy a ddj-sx soon, since its a serato dj software , but how i will be able to broadcast a live show from a radio station or web broadcasting from this serato controller? as Tracktor and virtual dj have the option to broadcast and to configure, including a live voice animation from voice. but on serato i cant find it. Hope u can help me about this thanks.


as a radio announcer and dj (with a ddj js) maby I can help, first things first, are you actualy doing it from a studio ( consol, mics, nexgen or master control etc) for a real world radio station or are you in a home studio OR are you just wanting to upload it online in a stream?

if you tell me what your working with im sure I can answer your questions. easy as, been a technition, announcer, promo chump and just about everything else in the radio industry including the station booze hag hahaha
nik39 2:30 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
but only on the Windows binary, for example, do you have a program that you can set to 60fps, and it barely run at 30fps (I point to the request which has been around for years to support GPU acceleration on the Windows side).

Not sure what you're aiming at, but I had beautiful smoothly scrolling waveforms on my Windows PC. Not so much on the (really, really powerful) Mac.
Kittmaster 2:32 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
but only on the Windows binary, for example, do you have a program that you can set to 60fps, and it barely run at 30fps (I point to the request which has been around for years to support GPU acceleration on the Windows side).

Not sure what you're aiming at, but I had beautiful smoothly scrolling waveforms on my Windows PC. Not so much on the (really, really powerful) Mac.


Please enlighten us how that is even possible, I've seen ITCH and DJ across 100+ machines, and yet to see smooth waveforms on any PC, in this case, MAC has always been silky smooth.

I'd really like to know.....seriously.
nik39 2:36 AM 4 June 2013
Know what? It just worked. No adjustments, tweaks or anything. That was with Scratch Live though.
nik39 2:37 AM 4 June 2013
Silky smooth? Are you saying that you're not getting any waveform stuttering at all on the Mac? It would be the first Mac I have seen. None of the Macs from my friends (mine included) have constant smooth waveforms.
FabulousFrequencies 2:39 AM 4 June 2013
My PC as well, XP 32 bit. Smooth as silk maxed frame rates with only 1gb of system ram. Has reasonable latency too. I just picked up a HP with larger screen and 4gb of ram. I don't expect it o behave any differently, but i'll repost back when I get it up and running.
Kittmaster 2:48 AM 4 June 2013
The waveforms have always been choppy on a PC, and I have many killer i7s with GB Nvidia cards, the waveforms always suck ass on a PC, on my macbook pro that is dual core, circa 2008, ITCH and DJ are smooth as silk.
Papa Midnight 2:48 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
but only on the Windows binary, for example, do you have a program that you can set to 60fps, and it barely run at 30fps (I point to the request which has been around for years to support GPU acceleration on the Windows side).

Not sure what you're aiming at, but I had beautiful smoothly scrolling waveforms on my Windows PC. Not so much on the (really, really powerful) Mac.

This may be the fault of my being rather overly broad in my statement as I did see relatively smooth waveforms on XP running on an Intel Core Duo with 2.5GB of RAM.

Would that have been what you were running at the time (you said "had" so I'm operating under the pretense that you were indicating past tense).

I ask because I have yet to see a single Vista or 7 machine (untested on 8) produce smooth waveforms.
FabulousFrequencies 2:51 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
The waveforms have always been choppy on a PC, and I have many killer i7s with GB Nvidia cards, the waveforms always suck ass on a PC, on my macbook pro that is dual core, circa 2008, ITCH and DJ are smooth as silk.


On *your* PC's.. On this unit www.docs.sony.com I simply don't have the described issues.
Kittmaster 2:54 AM 4 June 2013
Don't give the "your" bs....has the same issue across every PC I've and OTHERS have ever used. And good for you, guess your one of the lucky ones.
nik39 2:57 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Don't give the "your" bs....has the same issue across every PC I've and OTHERS have ever used. And good for you, guess your one of the lucky ones.

lol, you're giving the exact same "your" bs, that he is giving. I don't know why it hurts you so much to acknowledge and accept the fact that there are flawless Windows systems running SL/Itch/SDJ.
nik39 2:57 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
This may be the fault of my being rather overly broad in my statement as I did see relatively smooth waveforms on XP running on an Intel Core Duo with 2.5GB of RAM.

Would that have been what you were running at the time (you said "had" so I'm operating under the pretense that you were indicating past tense).

I ask because I have yet to see a single Vista or 7 machine (untested on 8) produce smooth waveforms.

I have switched to Mac due to VSL not working properly on Windows. The waveforms were smooth as butter on my XP machine, single core machine, at the lowest possible buffer size! Hey, I still have an audio example of dropout free Scratch Live running at a moderate buffer size with a P3 at 333MHz - no joke ;)

It's a pain and gamble to get VSL working properly on Windows. I have tested SL on a few Win Vista/7 machines, but I can't recall whether the waveforms were smooth or not. All I remember was that video was... eeeeeeeh ;)

I only use Windows with SL+Itch+SDJ if I want to test some features and builds. Not for my gigs, because I play a lot of videos. (even when playing audio gigs, I use the video files)
Kittmaster 2:58 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Don't give the "your" bs....has the same issue across every PC I've and OTHERS have ever used. And good for you, guess your one of the lucky ones.

lol, you're giving the exact same "your" bs, that he is giving. I don't know why it hurts you so much to acknowledge and accept the fact that there are flawless Windows systems running SL/Itch/SDJ.


They are few and far between, thanks for playing.
nik39 3:03 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
on my macbook pro that is dual core, circa 2008, ITCH and DJ are smooth as silk.


Quote:
Silky smooth? Are you saying that you're not getting any waveform stuttering at all on the Mac? It would be the first Mac I have seen. None of the Macs from my friends (mine included) have constant smooth waveforms.

Still waiting for an answer from you.
FabulousFrequencies 3:09 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Don't give the "your" bs....has the same issue across every PC I've and OTHERS have ever used. And good for you, guess your one of the lucky ones.


When you say 'a' PC, you make a blanket statement. Semantics is important when there is an exception disproving a rule. Apple doesn't have this magical hardware platform that nobody else can touch. They are very VERY nice computers with well thought out peripheral systems. But that does not handicap a PC into this dark pit of inequity. Perhaps we're not the lucky ones, maybe you're just unlucky.
DJ UZzy 7:07 AM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
hello, i need an advise , am intend to buy a ddj-sx soon, since its a serato dj software , but how i will be able to broadcast a live show from a radio station or web broadcasting from this serato controller? as Tracktor and virtual dj have the option to broadcast and to configure, including a live voice animation from voice. but on serato i cant find it. Hope u can help me about this thanks.


as a radio announcer and dj (with a ddj js) maby I can help, first things first, are you actualy doing it from a studio ( consol, mics, nexgen or master control etc) for a real world radio station or are you in a home studio OR are you just wanting to upload it online in a stream?

if you tell me what your working with im sure I can answer your questions. easy as, been a technition, announcer, promo chump and just about everything else in the radio industry including the station booze hag hahaha



Hello PSYKO,

Thanks for your support, Well, i am IT Engineer and i dont work in radio, but am a DJ part time for myself, parties , friends etc, i got a lots of fan and i used to mix live at home via Virtual DJ, Tracktor which allow me to broadcast my live session via web radio or webcast, just sound not video. it was really awesome where fans around the world can listen to me live with a clear sound and also i do use to animate the live mix by voice and make dedication for my fans.

Now am interesting to buy this DDJ-SX as i heard its awesome ,and its a serato dj after all. i can see there is no broadasting option on serato dj as tracktor and VDJ have. so i would like to use serato as software when i get my ddj-sx and want to broadcast my live show via web as usual. thats y i would like to know how to do so.

i would like to know also if anyone can confirm me if the microphone issue distorted on ddj-sx has been solved or not yet as it was a hardware issues. also would like to know if i can add effects to voice or if serato dj will implement it in their software in the future updates.

Thanks
Papa Midnight 1:13 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Now am interesting to buy this DDJ-SX as i heard its awesome ,and its a serato dj after all. i can see there is no broadasting option on serato dj as tracktor and VDJ have. so i would like to use serato as software when i get my ddj-sx and want to broadcast my live show via web as usual. thats y i would like to know how to do so.

serato.com
Kittmaster 1:47 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
on my macbook pro that is dual core, circa 2008, ITCH and DJ are smooth as silk.


Quote:
Silky smooth? Are you saying that you're not getting any waveform stuttering at all on the Mac? It would be the first Mac I have seen. None of the Macs from my friends (mine included) have constant smooth waveforms.

Still waiting for an answer from you.


Why don't you just see for yourself

PC:

www.kittmaster.com

MAC:

www.kittmaster.com

PC > Core 2 Duo with dedicated Nvidia graphics card

Macbook Pro Circa 2010 I believe.
nik39 3:11 PM 4 June 2013
So you're testing in offline player? How neat. :D

Are you playing live in the offline player? ... Just asking ;)

Plus, I am not sure what I should see from 30 seconds snippet. I have three different Macs... none of them have constant, fluid scrolling waveforms. I have never seen constant smooth waveforms on any Mac. But it might just be my bad karma - who knows.
Kittmaster 3:36 PM 4 June 2013
The offline player and online mode with an NS6, NS7, V7 all look exactly the same as the offline mode. So that was the quickest way to get the videos to show you. Your attempt at humor while tougue in cheek doesn't sit well thinking that I'm just full of shit, so for your reference:

www.aaron-beachproductions.com

I'm sure when you compare it against my profile website, you'll have a better understanding.

As shown, the PC is a lot more choppy and hesitant as it draws the waveform across the screen then the MAC.

You say your running XP? Maybe that is why you say you have smoother waveforms, but I'm not sure why since I've stop using XP moons ago, the windows version used in the video is win7 x64, MAC 10.7.5.

Do realize that I have tried this with all seven computers at home (pc > core 2 duo or greater) and my two macbooks (circa 2008), it does it (choppy waveforms) on my work machines, my DJ peers, and others, all see the same behavior.

It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

However, this is way off topic for this thread's issue.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:59 PM 4 June 2013
We are going way off topic here now guys!!!
Kittmaster 5:09 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
We are going way off topic here now guys!!!


That is why I put it as my last line....back on topic.
nik39 10:34 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
The offline player and online mode with an NS6, NS7, V7 all look exactly the same as the offline mode.

"look the same"? You do realize that the CPU consumption (and most likely GPU consumption) is different between these modes.

Quote:
Your attempt at humor while tougue in cheek doesn't sit well thinking that I'm just full of shit, so for your reference:

www.aaron-beachproductions.com

I'm sure when you compare it against my profile website, you'll have a better understanding.

Again, not sure what you're trying to say. Are you trying to credit yourself by showing that you have a PHD or something? If you need to mention that you studied this and that, and how successful you are, then you're actually discrediting your arguments, because ... is that all you can come up with? Your knowledge or experience in other fields have nothing to do with this matter.

Quote:
As shown, the PC is a lot more choppy and hesitant as it draws the waveform across the screen then the MAC.

Yes, for sure. Anyone can see this.

Quote:
You say your running XP? Maybe that is why you say you have smoother waveforms, but I'm not sure why since I've stop using XP moons ago, the windows version used in the video is win7 x64, MAC 10.7.5.

It could be that the GUI runs better in XP - as said before, I can not remember how well the W7/Vista machines were working (when it comes to the GUI).


Quote:
Do realize that I have tried this with all seven computers at home (pc > core 2 duo or greater) and my two macbooks (circa 2008), it does it (choppy waveforms) on my work machines, my DJ peers, and others, all see the same behavior.

Again, I am not sure what you're trying to tell me. You posted your experience, I posted mine. I never said Mac is worse than all Windows OR anything similar. You were the one who was not able to accept that there *are* Windows machines who run flawlessly. :)

Quote:
It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

I can remember the first part, but I can't remember that Serato said that the GUI (and I don't mean video preview/output windows) was being rendered on OSX using the GPU. Not saying that I don't trust your words, but I'd like to read the exact words of Serato, could you kindly post a link please?

However, this does not negate the fact, that the waveforms ran smoothly on my XP machines. Also this does not negate the fact that on none of the Mac machines (and these machines are standardized!) I own, or have seen from others, were able to scroll the waveforms completely stutter free. So in this aspect, the Windows XP machines I was using, were better than the Macs. *shrug*

Quote:
However, this is way off topic for this thread's issue.

Haha. That was clever. So after 220 words you suddenly realize, that you/we are going offtopic and you decided to do something against it by posting that last sentence? C'mon... if you had really cared, you would had posted something like:

"I could elaborate, but that would go off topic." Period.


Concerning the o.g. topic: Yes, for some reasons the Windows builds of SL (and other Serato products) can not deal with the same library sizes as the OSX builds. AFAI remember it had to do with SL pre-rendering the views for the crates. At some point (when scrolling through the crates!) Windows threw a generic error message (memory something?), while in fact SL was not even near to the maximum amount of RAM an 32Bit process can use/own.
Papa Midnight 11:13 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

I can remember the first part, but I can't remember that Serato said that the GUI (and I don't mean video preview/output windows) was being rendered on OSX using the GPU. Not saying that I don't trust your words, but I'd like to read the exact words of Serato, could you kindly post a link please?

Not for nothing, but I'd like to see that myself.

Quote:
Concerning the o.g. topic: Yes, for some reasons the Windows builds of SL (and other Serato products) can not deal with the same library sizes as the OSX builds. AFAI remember it had to do with SL pre-rendering the views for the crates. At some point (when scrolling through the crates!) Windows threw a generic error message (memory something?), while in fact SL was not even near to the maximum amount of RAM an 32Bit process can use/own.

Indeed. But I'll also point out that both seem to have close to the same crash point, though the Windows binary seems to require more RAM from the jump (before crates are even loaded). Additionally, in comparison to ITCH, the amount of RAM that Scratch Live uses is miniscule (when devices are connected in both situations).
Kittmaster 11:23 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

I can remember the first part, but I can't remember that Serato said that the GUI (and I don't mean video preview/output windows) was being rendered on OSX using the GPU. Not saying that I don't trust your words, but I'd like to read the exact words of Serato, could you kindly post a link please?

Not for nothing, but I'd like to see that myself.


From Sam himself:

serato.com

And Support:

serato.com
Kittmaster 11:26 PM 4 June 2013
Nik,

You got an issue, PM me, otherwise, you and I are done here.

Stick to the topic.
nik39 11:33 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Stick to the topic.

You decide for yourself, I decide for myself :)
FabulousFrequencies 11:34 PM 4 June 2013
It's generally OK to go off topic in the general discussion area, many agree. As long as you get back on track eventually as that is the purpose of the thread.

In both of those links, neither differentiate PC from MAC. What is gathered from that information is that the program itself will prioritize audio threading over graphical threading on either platform and via the CPU. Sam speculated that for the *particular* user with the Intel 3000 graphics that if that was integrated with the CPU it would explain the unstable wave guides as audio threading and video rendering would have been shared by the same chip, audio receiving thread priority. However on either platform with a separate GPU chip set his explanation is void.

I don't have the library bug, but I keep my library ultra trimmed and don't do open venue. So I have nothing to contribute to the specs spreadsheet. I will watch this thread.
nik39 11:35 PM 4 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

I can remember the first part, but I can't remember that Serato said that the GUI (and I don't mean video preview/output windows) was being rendered on OSX using the GPU. Not saying that I don't trust your words, but I'd like to read the exact words of Serato, could you kindly post a link please?

Not for nothing, but I'd like to see that myself.


From Sam himself:

serato.com

And Support:

serato.com

His words:

Quote:
The only way to get smoother waveforms really is to upgrade your graphics processing unfortunately. The reason that it lags is because since the processor on your machine is trying to both draw the waveforms and also to stream the audio it is having a tough time. Scratch Live will prioritize the audio over the visual so the waveform may lag from time to time. Having dedicated graphics processing on a machine such as a Macbook means that all the visual elements are dealt with separately to the audio processing and is why it is smoother.

I don't read this as SL or Itch use the GPU dedicated on OSX. I read this as "a GPU will generally offload the ... load". But maybe I am wrong.
Kittmaster 12:00 AM 5 June 2013
well if that doesn't work try this one....

serato.com
nik39 12:07 AM 5 June 2013
Quote:
well if that doesn't work try this one....

serato.com

You're linking to a thread were you post your assumptions about the GPU? Unless you have started to work for Serato secretly - no, that does not work either ;)

This...
Quote:
however Kittmaster made some very good points of interest.

... does not qualify as an acknowledgement either.

Third try please :)
Kittmaster 12:10 AM 5 June 2013
Nik, you get off on acting like a jerk? Maybe its time to remove that avatar
nik39 12:23 AM 5 June 2013
Sigh. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. You asked whether this link works, I answered that question. Now if you cant stand the honest answer, why did you bother asking?

I asked specifically for a post from a Serato mod confirming that SL (or itch/sdj) are using a GPU on purpose. Then your second link os about a Post where YOU confirm the usage of the GPU. Lol.

So yes, if You are a Serato mod, then this link counts of course. And since we found out that you're a Serato employee feel free to remove that avatar, which You think is so special.
Kittmaster 12:24 AM 5 June 2013
I can handle the heat, just not the douchbaggery....no need for it.
Papa Midnight 12:29 AM 5 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It has been said in other SERATO threads and if memory serves, acknowledged by Serato themselves, that windows does not use the GPU to render the GUI, where MAC does, and it is inherently smoother.

I can remember the first part, but I can't remember that Serato said that the GUI (and I don't mean video preview/output windows) was being rendered on OSX using the GPU. Not saying that I don't trust your words, but I'd like to read the exact words of Serato, could you kindly post a link please?

Not for nothing, but I'd like to see that myself.


From Sam himself:

serato.com

And Support:

serato.com

As an aside Kittmaster, that has nothing to do with GPU acceleration of the application, so much as it is about making basic DirectDraw calls.

Here's what's being described (though rather loosely) by the support staff.

The Intel Core i3 (like other Core i-series processor) is a processor which has the Northbridge and Southbridge integrated on-die, eliminating the need for a seperate Southbridge and Front Side Bus. On top of that, it eliminates the need for motherboards to integrate the Intel GPU's (i.e.: the 945GM's) onboard anymore as this task has been handed off to the processor which now also has a GPU onboard (this being, in this case, the Intel HD 3000).

While these can run separately from each other, Serato products on Windows are not GPU accelerated, meaning they do not require Direct3D or OpenGL acceleration, hence the card never acts for anything more than DirectDraw. The thing is, most DirectDraw calls are handled by the CPU itself through an API call.

To this point, Serato products are heavily CPU intensive applications that pound the absolute hell out of the USB bus, the audio bus, FSB (if applicable), and the CPU (and that's not counting RAM usage). Not only this, but Serato seeks to achieve as low latency as possible. The problem is that it has to share CPU cycles with DirectDraw calls. What Samuel S is describing is that as opposed to giving priority to DirectDraw calls, Serato is going to ALWAYS give absolute priority to the processing of audio - especially at lower latencies. So, for absolute simplicity in description, if Serato has 100 CPU cycles to choose from, requires 70-90 for Audio, and requires 10-30 for GUI drawing, the Audio's getting prioritized to 90 every single time and the GUI will draw when it can.

On Core i-series processors, this becomes an even greater problem because - in other to manage TDP and proper voltages - they have to throttle the CPU or on-die GPU which puts even further strain on the processor due to the need to perform the same CPU cycles at a significantly lower clock rate.

Samuel S is suggesting the user upgrade to a dedicated GPU to remove this problem, though I seriously doubt it would fix anything as Serato applications aren't GPU accelerated anyway, DirectDraw calls will STILL be made to the CPU first (even if they are passed off as part of the DirectX API to the GPU), and we'll be right back where we started.
Papa Midnight 12:32 AM 5 June 2013
Though, on the other hand, OS X accelerates the ENTIRE desktop to the GPU directly - though this point has been rendered moot with them also using Intel HD Series GPUs as a way to increase battery life and no longer packaging on NVIDIA Dedicated GPUs.

So Kittmaster is not wrong. Serato doesn't need to accelerate the GUI with the GPU on OS X because the Operating System does it for them at the Kernel level. Windows, on the other hand, does not.
nik39 7:32 AM 5 June 2013
Quote:
Serato doesn't need to accelerate the GUI with the GPU on OS X because the Operating System does it for them at the Kernel level. Windows, on the other hand, does not.

From my understanding the most load happens when calculating the virtual decks and the waveforms. From my understanding this is done by CPU and is not offloaded to the GPU.
Papa Midnight 2:19 PM 5 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Serato doesn't need to accelerate the GUI with the GPU on OS X because the Operating System does it for them at the Kernel level. Windows, on the other hand, does not.

From my understanding the most load happens when calculating the virtual decks and the waveforms. From my understanding this is done by CPU and is not offloaded to the GPU.

This is correct. But the actual drawing of it (render and display), I believe, is done by the GPU on OS X.

Granted, I could be wrong...
PSYKO 5:11 AM 6 June 2013
Hello PSYKO,

Thanks for your support, Well, i am IT Engineer and i dont work in radio, but am a DJ part time for myself, parties , friends etc, i got a lots of fan and i used to mix live at home via Virtual DJ, Tracktor which allow me to broadcast my live session via web radio or webcast, just sound not video. it was really awesome where fans around the world can listen to me live with a clear sound and also i do use to animate the live mix by voice and make dedication for my fans.

Now am interesting to buy this DDJ-SX as i heard its awesome ,and its a serato dj after all. i can see there is no broadasting option on serato dj as tracktor and VDJ have. so i would like to use serato as software when i get my ddj-sx and want to broadcast my live show via web as usual. thats y i would like to know how to do so.

i would like to know also if anyone can confirm me if the microphone issue distorted on ddj-sx has been solved or not yet as it was a hardware issues. also would like to know if i can add effects to voice or if serato dj will implement it in their software in the future updates.

Thanks


ok so this is a lil trickier than if you were doing it from a proper studio, that would be way easyer, as you just have to plug into one of the consols faders and as most shows stream online fro the studio kill 2 stones with one bird! (yes I ment to say it that way)

in your case as your just doing it from home the easist way to do it would be......

first off the ddj sx has 2 types of master output, xlr and rca (also a booth one 2)

so what I would do go and get an rca (plug(male)) to 3.5mm (plug(male)) and run it into another computers LINE IN jack, then find some kind of online streaming program (never used one so I wouldnt know where to start) and stream from the line in, if you want to hear the mixing yourself use the xlr or booth outputs and bingo your done.

as my home set up is I run my ddj sx through xlr to my speakers and also run rca to 3.5 plug to my (big) pc's line in, where I have audio editing/recording software, so I can record live mixes onto my pc and burn them to disk or send them to friends over the net or (and this will sound weird) broadcast LIVE over teamspeak (a gamers program to talk to team members, friends and other players) all I have to do is set the main input for sound/"mic" to line and its away, takes 5 min to set up and balance - one off - and then I can dj for my friends live and in real time through that (at one stage I was doing a show from Auckland that went to 5 other places in nz and to 3 in Australia), or record it etc. works fine for me and is realy easy to set up and use (and as its a spate pc don't run into any problems with cpu and ram usage!!!)

the only problem I could see is finding an online streaming/broadcast software or home radio set up, but they should be out there some where

to use an old scripture excerpt.........google is your friend

hope this helps, and sorry for the late reply, had to think on it a bit haha

good luck bro and let me know how you get on

.....it is possible if you can think of ways to do it im a gamer/dj, and your in it/dj so should be just a matter of looking and working the rig)
maviccf 8:31 AM 6 June 2013
Quote:
Hello PSYKO,

Thanks for your support, Well, i am IT Engineer and i dont work in radio, but am a DJ part time for myself, parties , friends etc, i got a lots of fan and i used to mix live at home via Virtual DJ, Tracktor which allow me to broadcast my live session via web radio or webcast, just sound not video. it was really awesome where fans around the world can listen to me live with a clear sound and also i do use to animate the live mix by voice and make dedication for my fans.

Now am interesting to buy this DDJ-SX as i heard its awesome ,and its a serato dj after all. i can see there is no broadasting option on serato dj as tracktor and VDJ have. so i would like to use serato as software when i get my ddj-sx and want to broadcast my live show via web as usual. thats y i would like to know how to do so.

i would like to know also if anyone can confirm me if the microphone issue distorted on ddj-sx has been solved or not yet as it was a hardware issues. also would like to know if i can add effects to voice or if serato dj will implement it in their software in the future updates.

Thanks


ok so this is a lil trickier than if you were doing it from a proper studio, that would be way easyer, as you just have to plug into one of the consols faders and as most shows stream online fro the studio kill 2 stones with one bird! (yes I ment to say it that way)

in your case as your just doing it from home the easist way to do it would be......

first off the ddj sx has 2 types of master output, xlr and rca (also a booth one 2)

so what I would do go and get an rca (plug(male)) to 3.5mm (plug(male)) and run it into another computers LINE IN jack, then find some kind of online streaming program (never used one so I wouldnt know where to start) and stream from the line in, if you want to hear the mixing yourself use the xlr or booth outputs and bingo your done.

as my home set up is I run my ddj sx through xlr to my speakers and also run rca to 3.5 plug to my (big) pc's line in, where I have audio editing/recording software, so I can record live mixes onto my pc and burn them to disk or send them to friends over the net or (and this will sound weird) broadcast LIVE over teamspeak (a gamers program to talk to team members, friends and other players) all I have to do is set the main input for sound/"mic" to line and its away, takes 5 min to set up and balance - one off - and then I can dj for my friends live and in real time through that (at one stage I was doing a show from Auckland that went to 5 other places in nz and to 3 in Australia), or record it etc. works fine for me and is realy easy to set up and use (and as its a spate pc don't run into any problems with cpu and ram usage!!!)

the only problem I could see is finding an online streaming/broadcast software or home radio set up, but they should be out there some where

to use an old scripture excerpt.........google is your friend

hope this helps, and sorry for the late reply, had to think on it a bit haha

good luck bro and let me know how you get on

.....it is possible if you can think of ways to do it im a gamer/dj, and your in it/dj so should be just a matter of looking and working the rig)



The Mic issue is not resolved, you can try an external mixer like " Alto Zephyr Series ZMX122FX 8-Channel Compact Mixer with Effects " ( altoproaudio.com ) to ad Mic functionality and No! to the effects for Mic use on the DDJ SX, this feature is not usable for Mic input or Aux input . The only effect usable for Mic and aux input is the filter.
I am using this set up at the moment and it is working great for me. The audio output signal from the ALTO mixer is excellent and the effects processor signal is from Alesis.
I understand that buying more hardware to compensate flaws design from pioneer sounds ridicule, but the product is there and if we want to use it we have to improvise.
As for broadcasting your mix sets, you can try setting the the audio card of your computer as an aux input from VDJ configuration window and take the signal from the recommended ALTO brand Mixer and you should not have any problems.
There is a pioneer controller that has all this features working 100 %, is the DDJ-S1 with Serato DJ, is true some features have changed from ITCH, but all you asking about effects been applied to the Mic input is there.
I hope this will help you.
Good Luck
FabulousFrequencies 3:49 PM 6 June 2013
'edcast'
djshorzy69 7:13 PM 7 June 2013
go into task manager click on serato and set priority to below normal,havent crashed since then,might work for some others
Papa Midnight 9:21 PM 7 June 2013
Quote:
go into task manager click on serato and set priority to below normal,havent crashed since then,might work for some others

Why would you lower the priority for the Serato process; and what does this have to do with Serato products being unable to allocate beyond 24bits of addressing space without crashing on all supported operating systems?
maviccf 10:46 PM 7 June 2013
Quote:
Why would you lower the priority for the Serato process; and what does this have to do with Serato products being unable to allocate beyond 24bits of addressing space without crashing on all supported operating systems?

Quote:
havent crashed since then,might work for some others
Colemang70 5:01 PM 13 June 2013
ok just finished another test with serato dj I have successful build a database with 26,669 songs and 18 videos in it. with no controller connected to the pc laptop running windows 8. Serato DJ is using 509.6 MB of ram just sitting idle with this music and video in the database of the program. The program database is sitting at 21 MB in size. You add the controller you will be at around 700 MB of ram on your system which give you a nice buffer before you reach the ram limitation of 1.5ish GB for a 32-bit application like Serato DJ.

v/r
colemang70
Papa Midnight 5:28 PM 13 June 2013
Quote:
ram limitation of 1.5ish GB for a 32-bit application like Serato DJ.

Correction. That's the limitation of a 24-bit application (~1.6GiB). The limitation of the 32-bit address space is ~4GiB. Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
nik39 3:00 AM 14 June 2013
24bit application? Uhm...
Papa Midnight 3:14 AM 14 June 2013
Quote:
24bit application? Uhm...

Come on nik39...

Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.


24-bits = ~1.6GiB
32-bits = ~4.0GiB
Papa Midnight 3:20 AM 14 June 2013
Colemang implied that the limit of a 32-bit application is 1.5GiB.

The exact words used:

Quote:
[...] the ram limitation of 1.5ish GB for a 32-bit application like Serato DJ.
beisi 7:17 AM 14 June 2013
interesting, props to you guys for keeping the investigation going

wonder how they ended up with this 24 bit limitation? and would there be some way they could remove it without having to spend months and years reworking everything as 64 bit...?
nik39 9:11 AM 14 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
24bit application? Uhm...
Come on nik39...
Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
24-bits = ~1.6GiB32-bits = ~4.0GiB

Sorry, but I've never heard about a 24bit application. Either they are 8, 16, 32 or 64bit.
Kittmaster 12:21 PM 14 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
24bit application? Uhm...
Come on nik39...
Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
24-bits = ~1.6GiB32-bits = ~4.0GiB

Sorry, but I've never heard about a 24bit application. Either they are 8, 16, 32 or 64bit.


You can make an internal addressing scheme anyway you like, just have to set up an array to do it and make sure you don't over run it. If your talking hardware addressing, that isn't locked to those values either, if you use an FPGA or any custom programmable part, you can have an address bus any size you want to talk to a CPU or microcontroller.

For normal people, those numbers you define are typically the most common, but not limited to in practice.
nik39 12:33 PM 14 June 2013
I am not sure, I thought we were talking about Windows and Mac OSX.

Neither of them have 24Bit applications.
Papa Midnight 2:35 PM 14 June 2013
Ah, I see what you mean. But I'll point out that I never said there were 24-bit applications, just that they were crashing after attempting to address more than 24-bits of space.

Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space.


:)
DjSyndic8 3:09 PM 14 June 2013
Quote:
Sorry, but I've never heard about a 24bit application. Either they are 8, 16, 32 or 64bit.


lol seems logical

Papa Midnight getting all tech spazzy on us almost like he wrote the codes for Serato

Serato mods must be having a chuckle :)
Papa Midnight 3:33 PM 14 June 2013
...what?
nik39 5:20 PM 14 June 2013
Quote:
Ah, I see what you mean. But I'll point out that I never said there were 24-bit applications, just that they were crashing after attempting to address more than 24-bits of space.

Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space.


:)

Sorry, indeed you were not talking about 24Bit apps. I think the confusion comes from the fact that people who have almost zero technical background suddenly jump onto it... Serato is 24Bit!

I highly doubt that Serato would limit their datastructures, pointers etc. to something odd like 24Bit, when there is no reason to do this, because it means additional work.
aktronic 9:42 PM 16 June 2013
Quote:
Although Serato products are 32-bit applications, they crash after attempting to allocate more than 24-bits of address space.


Quote:
24-bits = ~1.6GiB32-bits = ~4.0GiB



???

Please use your calculator:
address space 24bit: 16777216 Byte = 16 MByte
address space 32bit: 4294967296 Byte = 4096 MByte = 4 GByte

I don't think SERATO writes applications for 24 bit

A 32bit application normaly can use only 2GB

msdn.microsoft.com(v=vs.85).aspx
Papa Midnight 9:57 PM 16 June 2013
Quote:
A 32bit application normaly can use only 2GB

Physical Address Extensions eliminated that years ago. A 32-bit application can now allocated well beyond 2GB to as much usage memory as there is in the 32-bit address space.

Quote:
msdn.microsoft.com(v=vs.85).aspx
Quote:
Limits on physical memory for 32-bit platforms also depend on the Physical Address Extension (PAE), which allows 32-bit Windows systems to use more than 4 GB of physical memory.


Quote:
address space 24bit: 16777216 Byte = 16 MByte

I'll openly admit that my math failed here. 2^24 is indeed 16777216.
aktronic 10:06 PM 16 June 2013
Do you know how the application is compiled?

2 GB with IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE cleared (default)
4 GB with IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE set

Only SERATO can give this answer....
Papa Midnight 10:10 PM 16 June 2013
Quote:
Do you know how the application is compiled?

Do you?

The knife cuts both ways; and I personally doubt the development team is going to jump into here to state how they have coded a proprietary application.
aktronic 10:21 PM 16 June 2013
I don't know how it's compiled.

Perhaps a real 64bit application will come for a stable application and use direct draw/3d for smooth waveforms and we are all happy.....
nik39 10:57 PM 16 June 2013
Quote:
address space 24bit: 16777216 Byte = 16 MByte
address space 32bit: 4294967296 Byte = 4096 MByte = 4 GByte

Ouch ;)
Papa Midnight 11:38 PM 16 June 2013
Quote:
Perhaps a real 64bit application will come for a stable application and use direct draw/3d for smooth waveforms and we are all happy.....

On this, I think we can all agree.

Quote:
Ouch ;)

i.imgur.com
nik39 12:04 AM 17 June 2013
All good... no one really realized that the numbers were wrong, except for aktronic. So we're all fooooools ;)
Kittmaster 1:39 AM 17 June 2013
Quote:
All good... no one really realized that the numbers were wrong, except for aktronic. So we're all fooooools ;)


Or we all just get the point since people aren't perfect "all" the time.
beisi 8:33 AM 17 June 2013
well, considering how ridiculously long it takes them to put out a twitch or vci300 'mapping' doesn't look like this will be fixed any time soon

meanwhile loads more kit comes out from NI, the one gets released, VD8 still gets developed, mixvibes gets more functionality, more trade shows probably coming soon with new controllers

seriously Serato, either fix your software or give it up and focus on SSL, none of this half way BS, if you want SDJ to be taken seriously as a professional product that is
nik39 9:26 PM 17 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
All good... no one really realized that the numbers were wrong, except for aktronic. So we're all fooooools ;)


Or we all just get the point since people aren't perfect "all" the time.

?

Not sure what you're trying to say.
Kittmaster 11:25 PM 17 June 2013
I'm sure you'll figure it out.
beisi 2:12 PM 24 June 2013
Not sure when it was created but I didn't see this until now:
serato.com

Good on you Serato for making this known issue guide page. Is to the point and well written.

Now if you please... how about some kind of update/fix?
Martin C 4:42 AM 25 June 2013
Hey guys,

Work still continues here and I wanted to get a few more databases from you all. This is so that we can continue to test large libraries with real use cases AS well as some libraries we simulate here. I have a few already, but would like more :)

Please only do this with a library system that CRASHES when used with Serato DJ.
Please follow these instructions carefully if you wish to participate:

Quote:
1. Close all programs.
2. Go to your systems default music folder.
3. Right click > copy, the "_Serato_" folder.
4. Paste to your desktop.
5. Now open the _Serato_ folder and if you have a "recordings" folder, please send it to the trash/recycle bin. (The reason for this is I don't need this for the testing, but if you have recordings in it, it will take up a lot of unnecessary space, making the file bigger to upload to me.)
6. Right click then either "Compress" or "Zip" the folder.
7. Rename the zipped file as "_Serato_Your_Username" (Just so I can tell whos is whos).
7. Go to the following URL: serato.com
8. Upload the zipped up folder.
9. In the description of the file please put "ATT: MARTIN" and then list whether you use Windows or Mac.


Please make sure you follow all instructions, I don't want you guys messing up your libraries in any other ways. Let me know if you have questions, and thanks heaps if you make the effort to do this for me :)
Kittmaster 12:31 PM 25 June 2013
Martin,

I do have some questions as I will help in whatever way I can to get this fixed. My first thought is operational, I have a working large library that functions in an earlier version of ITCH that I use live, that same library will crash DJ. Second, I have the old way of using the java tool that recurses my directory structure to build all my crates (which is the way I prefer to run) and crashes both ITCH and DJ.....of the two, which do you want? Or are you looking to solve both?

My other question is, assuming we start with a blank database for DJ (easy to do) and we try to recurse the folders to create the crates by dragging them in but it crashes before it completes, does that "assemble" the database file enough to figure out where the memory issue is or is that still an incomplete load where somethings that didn't get loaded will be blind to you because it was never able to finish the parsing process?

Let me know and I'll resubmit my stuff immediately to help move this along.

Thanks
Chris
Martin C 7:52 AM 26 June 2013
Hey Kittmaster,

Quote:
My first thought is operational, I have a working large library that functions in an earlier version of ITCH that I use live, that same library will crash DJ.


What is your question here? But yes, I would be keen for this library. If it crashes DJ and not ITCH, thats useful.

Quote:
Second, I have the old way of using the java tool that recurses my directory structure to build all my crates (which is the way I prefer to run) and crashes both ITCH and DJ.....of the two, which do you want? Or are you looking to solve both?


I am not familiar with using a java tool to build your library structure. What is the difference of this library and the first one, and what does it mean for the software? Does it mean you have more crates because you have crates automatically made that follow your directory structure? Does it mean you include more files as a result?

Quote:
My other question is, assuming we start with a blank database for DJ (easy to do) and we try to recurse the folders to create the crates by dragging them in but it crashes before it completes, does that "assemble" the database file enough to figure out where the memory issue is or is that still an incomplete load where somethings that didn't get loaded will be blind to you because it was never able to finish the parsing process?


Sorry, the question you are asking here is a little foggy for me to understand too. We know where the memory issue lies, we just need to improve on our memory consumption in the way our library system works.

We can do/have done what you are suggesting in house to slowly build the library to the point where we reach the crash, we have a few simulated large libraries too, but we'd like to gather some more real libraries just to make sure that whatever is planned to be done, its done right.

Are you asking if its useful for you as users to do the build from scratch test to let me know the memory limit?
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 12:46 PM 26 June 2013
ok I would clearly like to help but I don't think there is a way for me to help if the problem is large libraries why is the limit 100mb

I would love to help you I may have the biggest library here at well over 500gb let me know if there is a way for me to help @martin c

and yes my serato itch works just fine I tried dj and it crashes every time
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 12:52 PM 26 June 2013
Quote:
ok I would clearly like to help but I don't think there is a way for me to help if the problem is large libraries why is the limit 100mb



I would love to help you I may have the biggest library here at well over 500gb let me know if there is a way for me to help @martin c



and yes my serato itch works just fine I tried dj and it crashes every time



windows 7 64 bit user with out any past issues with this se upt for over 2 and a half years
Kittmaster 1:28 PM 26 June 2013
Quote:
Hey Kittmaster,

Quote:
My first thought is operational, I have a working large library that functions in an earlier version of ITCH that I use live, that same library will crash DJ.


What is your question here? But yes, I would be keen for this library. If it crashes DJ and not ITCH, thats useful.

>>> There is no question there, it was operational knowledge of two different ways of crate creation that I've used, one will allow old itch to run but crash dj, the other is the java method which will crash both, so I am passing along that info to ask which of the two you methods Serato would want because I can build it both ways for you to test.

Quote:
Second, I have the old way of using the java tool that recurses my directory structure to build all my crates (which is the way I prefer to run) and crashes both ITCH and DJ.....of the two, which do you want? Or are you looking to solve both?


I am not familiar with using a java tool to build your library structure. What is the difference of this library and the first one, and what does it mean for the software? Does it mean you have more crates because you have crates automatically made that follow your directory structure? Does it mean you include more files as a result?

>>> 2nd question first, yes, more crates that follows my directory structure. 1st question:
It means that the software has to deal with more crates since (in my case) I organize by label/issue of the source material, like X-mix, Ultimix, Mixshow Ingredients.....under each of those labels, each subfolder could be several of the sub series they provide like x-mix for example > chartbusters is 1-XXX, club classics 1-XX, and so on where each subseries will have an issue like 1-XXX. 3rd, no, there is only one file per location, if I choose to make custom crates out of that master crates structure, then any new creates I create just become pointers in the custom crate to the original single file, but in the file structure, it is only one file per folder as the label releases. In other words, I don't have 4 copies of "bust a move" from the same label throughout the file structure, it's just the one file, in the one location, and any crates that reference that file are simply crate pointers to that one file.....I "think" that is what your asking, if not please provide more info, hopefully I've answered what your asking for.

In my current schemt to get old itch to work is the amount of subscrates that are built based on my still highly organized file system structure. Using C:\ABP MASTER as my root folder. In windows explorer, I take all the folders in the RIGHT pane and drag them into ITCH's BLANK crate area. ITCH then uses those folders names and crates the "crates" from them. Everything under each of those folders are then brought in as one giant mishmash as a singular crate. So basically I end up with 53 "crates". I then am forced to use the location tag to "see" where each file lives and sort it to find the issue I need and track I want to play. Since the MP3 tags can be dupes over series, there would be no way to tell which of the dupes I want to play on the fly without looking at the location to see which of the versions I'd want to play in real time.

The JAVA tool, does a FULL RECURSIVE build of the exact file structure of the hard drive and builds EACH crate under C:\ABP MASTER so that basically my "crate" structure will appear EXACTLY as an "image" of my file structure. Using this method, I know EXACTLY where I am and exactly what track I have in mind, there is no real time deciphering of what's what since it is a mirror of my HD and THAT is where all my work is done, not within the serato library itself. I only use the serato library as intended, for some look up, not actual tagging, renaming, or anything else.

Since the tool is completely AUTOMATED it can find all the new or deleted songs that I've added to my file structure without having to go back through all of serato crates to figure out what is missing or needs to be added. I don't have time to be doing the double duty, so the java tool, has always been a solid way of building the serato libraries of my files.

Quote:
My other question is, assuming we start with a blank database for DJ (easy to do) and we try to recurse the folders to create the crates by dragging them in but it crashes before it completes, does that "assemble" the database file enough to figure out where the memory issue is or is that still an incomplete load where somethings that didn't get loaded will be blind to you because it was never able to finish the parsing process?


Sorry, the question you are asking here is a little foggy for me to understand too. We know where the memory issue lies, we just need to improve on our memory consumption in the way our library system works.

We can do/have done what you are suggesting in house to slowly build the library to the point where we reach the crash, we have a few simulated large libraries too, but we'd like to gather some more real libraries just to make sure that whatever is planned to be done, its done right.

Are you asking if its useful for you as users to do the build from scratch test to let me know the memory limit?

>>> No, I am not asking that at all. What I'm saying is, I can use the "java" tool to build my library as I did in the past before I ran into the memory limits using my current large library, but the problem is, once I do that, and I open up itch or DJ after the java tool crates are built, both will CRASH and not complete the load process.......so I'm asking, after I build the java library using my existing library, and try to open it in ITCH or DJ, will the after the crash, non complete built version of the database, be able to help serato figure out what is going wrong with a partially and/or incompletely build database file that your are asking to be submitted?


Martin, See above after >>>

Regards,
Chris
Papa Midnight 1:41 PM 26 June 2013
Quote:
I may have the biggest library here at well over 500gb

i.imgur.com

No offense man, but by comparison to some people here, this library is small - especially to the VJs.

Besides, it's not about file sizes or library sizes, it's about the size of the database. They are not one in the same. The database is a listing of the library.

The problem is the database is not only based on how many files you have, it also has to consider the number of crates, the number of subcrates, directories, sub-directories, the length of file names (which includes the entire directory structure), etc.

Quote:
Work still continues here and I wanted to get a few more databases from you all. This is so that we can continue to test large libraries with real use cases AS well as some libraries we simulate here. I have a few already, but would like more :)

Please only do this with a library system that CRASHES when used with Serato DJ.
Please follow these instructions carefully if you wish to participate:

I gotta be honest Martin, I quite literally deleted ALL my crates and started from scratch. I have many folders (hundreds - each of which will require a separate subcrate) which I haven't even yet imported in to have a stable setup. I can try rebuilding them to the point that they crash if this will help.
beisi 2:01 PM 26 June 2013
my library is quite small compared to others here but consistently crashes under win7 whenever I use itunes (manage my music switch on), I can try to go back and find out the last time I had the itunes integration turned on and it worked if that helps? I think it was with quite an old version of Itch tho....

Here is the summary of my library when it is guaranteed to crash:
- Crate amount 0
- File amount ~16500
- File sizes Total itunes folder 240gig, of that, music is 112gig around 16000 tracks
- File types 90% mp3, at least half over 320bitrate, at least a couple of gigs of samples are in my itunes library as wavs
- itunes manages my music, is currently on my second HD a 7200rpm drive in a caddy where the optical drive would have been
- iTunes being used (iTunes managing your music or not?) YES!
- External or internal drives c: around 120gig SSD, d: around 650gig 7200rpm

Now that I turned it off it works, but it makes music management a real PITA trying to keep its synced with Itunes.

Your current help/known issue write up discourage having itunes integration turned on. What is the point of this feature then? Traktor can do the same with itunes without crashing. Is this actually something on the development roadmap or has this gone the way of the bridge?
DJ Quartz 4:55 PM 26 June 2013
@ Martin,

I've uploaded my database that works with SSL, Itch 2.2 & SDJ on MacOSX.

This is the same database I used on the Windows side that would work with SSL but crash with Itch and SDJ.
Kittmaster 5:36 PM 26 June 2013
@Martin

I've done the same, I sent two sets of files, one what works with itch but crashes dj and one that crashes both itch and dj

Hopefully it helps!
DjSyndic8 9:33 PM 26 June 2013
Quote:
I've uploaded my database that works with SSL, Itch 2.2 & SDJ on MacOSX.

This is the same database I used on the Windows side that would work with SSL but crash with Itch and SDJ.


does this prove that Macs handle large database better then windows?

Quote:
This is the same database I used on the Windows side that would work with SSL but crash with Itch and SDJ.


I found that on windows, Scratch live handles large database better then Itch or Serato DJ I don't know why that is?
Papa Midnight 11:28 PM 26 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
This is the same database I used on the Windows side that would work with SSL but crash with Itch and SDJ.


I found that on windows, Scratch live handles large database better then Itch or Serato DJ I don't know why that is?

From what I have seen, ScratchLive uses significantly less resources (with regards to both CPU and Memory) to run from the get-go (even with the interface connected) before the database is loaded. More memory room to work with. Granted, unlike ITCH (With the exception being Numark V7's), ScratchLive's mixing engine is not internal so that may have something to do with it.
DJ CMount 1:54 AM 27 June 2013
Thanks. I have lowered my ITCH memory footprint to around 900 MB, which is still well below the point at which I would expect out of memory problems, but it still cannot run.

While going through my library & cleaning up a lot of messy tags, a bunch of my crates mysteriously disappeared after I had selected to rescan all the tags/relocate lost files & restarted Itch (the only program I can currently use without crashing)

Thoughts?
Martin C 6:50 AM 27 June 2013
Quote:
ok I would clearly like to help but I don't think there is a way for me to help if the problem is large libraries why is the limit 100mb

I would love to help you I may have the biggest library here at well over 500gb let me know if there is a way for me to help @martin c

and yes my serato itch works just fine I tried dj and it crashes every time


Your _Serato_ folder should not be over 100MB. I don't need all your music, I just need the _Serato_ folder which contains the database V2 file and crates/subcrates files. I can load this on my computer here to emulate your library, but of course I can't play any files because they aren't physically on my computer.

Ensure you follow my instructions and REMOVE all your recording if for some reason your _Serato_ folder is over 100MB.

Quote:
windows 7 64 bit user with out any past issues with this se upt for over 2 and a half years


If you aren't having any issues with your current setup, then I don't need your library.

Quote:
I gotta be honest Martin, I quite literally deleted ALL my crates and started from scratch. I have many folders (hundreds - each of which will require a separate subcrate) which I haven't even yet imported in to have a stable setup. I can try rebuilding them to the point that they crash if this will help.


Thats ok, I understand some guys will have changed their library systems to make it work for them since, and I don't want you to have to go to the trouble of rebuilding one that makes the software crash - only if its convenient for you.

Quote:
my library is quite small compared to others here but consistently crashes under win7 whenever I use itunes (manage my music switch on), I can try to go back and find out the last time I had the itunes integration turned on and it worked if that helps? I think it was with quite an old version of Itch tho....


If you are using iTunes then its a different story. In that case I will need a different file from you in order to replicate the crash you experience. This file is again, in the default music folder, then in the iTunes folder. It is called "iTunes Music Library.xml" or "iTunes Library.xml".

Quote:
Your current help/known issue write up discourage having itunes integration turned on. What is the point of this feature then? Traktor can do the same with itunes without crashing. Is this actually something on the development roadmap or has this gone the way of the bridge?


Because the feature works fine if you keep your library under a certain number. To put it bluntly, the feature works fine for the majority of our users. The article we wrote is there to help users that DO experience this issue and potentially tweak their library in a certain way that might help them. Its not an ultimate solution, but it includes our recommended workarounds we have to offer at this point.

Yes, I have been saying throughout this whole discussion, there is being work being done on this issue, I just don't know/can't say when it will be resolved. I am trying to get some good testing libraries to help development.

Quote:
While going through my library & cleaning up a lot of messy tags, a bunch of my crates mysteriously disappeared after I had selected to rescan all the tags/relocate lost files & restarted Itch (the only program I can currently use without crashing)


Someone from support can definitely help you out, but here is not the place. Please start your own help request.

Thanks to Quartz and Kittmaster for the uploads. Anyone else, if you don't understand what I am asking for, then please don't try. I don't want anyone messing up their libraries for this, and again I must stress, only upload if you are having THIS particular problem, not something else.

Cheers all :)
dj-nice 11:36 AM 27 June 2013
you will get my database on weekend
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 2:21 PM 27 June 2013
@martin c I am clearly having problems I think I stated that I meant before this problem I never had a problem

ill get u my data base to u this weekend and maybe this problem can be fixed

will upload soon didn't know exactly what u needed and how to do it I clearly understand now I will get this to you as soon as im done with my weekend gigs
Martin C 11:03 PM 27 June 2013
Thanks DJSMOOTHBLENDZ and dj-nice :)
Kittmaster 11:27 PM 27 June 2013
Martin,

With your knowledge of checking where the problem may be, have you had any success or failure trying to load up the libraries that were submitted thus far?

Just curious if the light at the end of the tunnel is the exit or the oncoming train.
tamoriginal 12:38 AM 28 June 2013
My Itch/SDJ "Out of memory" pretty much started after I switched PC's and had to transfer somehow I ended up with 2 _Serato_ folders one inside my music folder as well as one in the same location as the music folder.

After that I had the "Serato DJ/Itch has stoped working..." crashes, got that to stop by reducing the amount of crates & subcrates that I was using, NOT the size of the crates or the database.

SDJ would crash whenever the controller was detected, Itch would start but no effects if controller started after Itch did, otherwise would crash on first song loading.
DjSyndic8 1:19 AM 28 June 2013
Quote:
ill get u my data base to u this weekend and maybe this problem can be fixed


good luck
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 7:28 AM 28 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
ill get u my data base to u this weekend and maybe this problem can be fixed




good luck


lol syn how u been had to chime in and try to help here haven't done this since we tested those betas in the past salute
DjSyndic8 11:29 AM 28 June 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ill get u my data base to u this weekend and maybe this problem can be fixed




good luck


lol syn how u been had to chime in and try to help here haven't done this since we tested those betas in the past salute


Oh yeah I remember djsmoothblends Ive been good I haven't had any issues ever since i bought a mac sorry to hear bout your issues I hope Martin C can sort something out for u fingers crossed :)
DJNiko413 11:52 AM 28 June 2013
I hope an update to Serato DJ happens very soon. I am very surprised that Serato tech support continually asks us what our laptop/music file configuration is when it is clearly a software issue. I started using Scratch Live in 2006 with a Dell Inspiron, Western Digital external hard drive with 55,000 songs on it, and Pioneer CDJ's. I NEVER had a crash or a 'stalled' song load. (When I load a song into the right or left deck, I get the spinning wheel, Serato DJ times out, and you need to force close.) I then purchased a MacBook Pro and moved into controllers with the Vestax VCI-300 and Serato Itch and updated to a 1 TB Western Digital hard drive. NEVER had a crash. I purchased the Numark NS6, used my same MacBook Pro and 1TB hard drive. NEVER had a crash. Now I am using the Pioneer DDJ-SX with my MacBook Pro with about 3,000 songs on iTunes, my 1TB Western Digital Hard Drive, and I am a nervous wreck at shows. The DDJ-SX is an incredible controller, but is scaring me to death to use at shows. I had 5 separate issues of slow song loads that lasted close to 3 minutes. I will lose some serious future gigs if I am not able to mix in the next song because of the 'spinning wheel' on my screen. I do bring my CDJ's out as backups, but my performance will be affected if I am reading the floor and want to load that perfect next song, but I am a nervous wreck worried that my song will not load. What I tried last weekend was to move songs into my Prepare window first instead of immediately into the right or left deck. Amazingly, some of my songs did not load into my Prepare section window. If I had tried to move the song into the decks, it would have crashed. Serato: I am extremely loyal to my brands, ie Serato and Pioneer. Please do not keep asking us what our setup is and asking us to cut our Song Libraries down. I have re-connected my SSL-1 box at my house and practiced. Rock solid, no lags and immediate loads. This with a Serato box from 2006 that I have played outside in 101 degree heat for summer parties and I think I dropped one time. My VCI-300 and Numark NS6 also on Itch - I have used those in the heat, in the cold.....just jammed on them and never had issues. PLEASE update Serato DJ soon so I can calm down using my DDJ-SX!
Martin C 4:44 AM 29 June 2013
Quote:
Martin,

With your knowledge of checking where the problem may be, have you had any success or failure trying to load up the libraries that were submitted thus far?

Just curious if the light at the end of the tunnel is the exit or the oncoming train.


We are making progress, yes. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to say anything more at this point, as you expect Kittmaster. I have had varied success with loading them myself, but I am mainly trying to gather them so I can pass them onto our testers. I am not working on the solution myself.

My knowledge on checking where the problem may be amounts to this:

- Each entry of 1 "file" in a Serato library takes up a certain amount of memory. Its apparent that it probably takes up more memory than it should.
- Each crate or subcrate file in a Serato library, also takes up more memory than it should.

Both of the above factors can and hopefully will be improved in an update.

- Our idle speed isn't too bad
- The introduction of our DJ-FX doesn't help, but I don't think this is surprising for FX in an audio application generally speaking.

Both of the above factors are ok, of course everything could always be improved. I think its the crate/file memory usage thats the real bad guy here.

My knowledge of the solution and how it will happen is extremely minimal.

So like I said, I am unable to promise any fixes, or firm dates about when solutions will be reached, I am simply trying to gather more libraries in efforts to provide useful input into the ongoing investigation and work around memory usage.

Quote:
I am very surprised that Serato tech support continually asks us what our laptop/music file configuration is when it is clearly a software issue.


It is still useful to ask for this information. We aren't denying it is a software by doing so, we are just trying to gather what information where we can and help people by suggesting what workarounds we have to offer for the time being.

Quote:
Please do not keep asking us what our setup is and asking us to cut our Song Libraries down. I have re-connected my SSL-1 box at my house and practiced. Rock solid, no lags and immediate loads. This with a Serato box from 2006 that I have played outside in 101 degree heat for summer parties and I think I dropped one time. My VCI-300 and Numark NS6 also on Itch - I have used those in the heat, in the cold.....just jammed on them and never had issues. PLEASE update Serato DJ soon so I can calm down using my DDJ-SX!


I understand your frustrations for sure man. Hardware aside, as you said yourself, this about the software. In terms of the problem we are all talking about, Scratch Live uses less memory overall than Serato DJ. ITCH sits somewhere in between, so it isn't uncommon for us to see brackets of customers sitting above or below each "threshold" that each software has.

Please don't turn this into a hardware comparison though, its about the software. We as support staff are still going to be asking questions, and suggesting what we can (I am sorry if it makes you mad) but there isn't much we can do ourselves but continue to work with the current situation and continue to gather information.

As I have said many times throughout this discussion, the investigation and work is ongoing, so we hope to have something more for you guys other than just "asking to cut down on your libraries" in the future :)
dj-nice 10:24 AM 15 July 2013
Serato DJ 1.2.1 is out now. But no description, if you did some fixes regarding to our RAM problem.
Martin C 11:36 AM 15 July 2013
Hey dj-nice,

Unfortunately no fixes regarding Memory usage in this release. The bug fixes include:

Quote:

Fixed NS7 Mic not working
Fixed bug where Split Cue knob showed as enabled in Setup screen for NS7
Fixed bug where NS6 P2 FX button sometimes would not light up
Fixed bug where half/double loop buttons were staying lit after being pressed
Added upfader curve mapping to VCI-380


There is still some memory usage work being done, but no word as to when we will be confident about rolling into a release yet.

To be honest, I was hoping I would get a few more libraries from users in this discussion so I had something to provide the testers with. Only a handful have sent them to me so far... this is really is a great chance to contribute to the solution :)
dj-nice 11:54 AM 15 July 2013
[b]HEY GUYS!!!!!!! COME ON.....
Sent your databases to Serato to get rid of the memory bug[/b]

Quote:
Quote:
1. Close all programs.
2. Go to your systems default music folder.
3. Right click > copy, the "_Serato_" folder.
4. Paste to your desktop.
5. Now open the _Serato_ folder and if you have a "recordings" folder, please send it to the trash/recycle bin. (The reason for this is I don't need this for the testing, but if you have recordings in it, it will take up a lot of unnecessary space, making the file bigger to upload to me.)
6. Right click then either "Compress" or "Zip" the folder.
7. Rename the zipped file as "_Serato_Your_Username" (Just so I can tell whos is whos).
7. Go to the following URL: serato.com
8. Upload the zipped up folder.
9. In the description of the file please put "ATT: MARTIN" and then list whether you use Windows or Mac.
D.J. FLOW 4:32 AM 16 July 2013
How do I attach a file here?
dj-nice 6:33 AM 16 July 2013
oh...the upload URL got lost in quoted text.... ;-(

uploadlink: serato.com
dj t-money 1:42 PM 16 July 2013
Hi dj-nice i would like to help with the large database issue to get it sorted out. I've being managing my database carefully by not adding unwanted tracks to the database etc. but i would rather to have all my tracks to be honest. At this present moment in time i get no crashes because like i said i have being (managing my database carefully) but i was wondering if you still want me to upload a copy of my database?
Kittmaster 5:35 PM 16 July 2013
Yes, upload your database, the more they have the sooner it can be fixed.
Martin C 11:33 PM 16 July 2013
Yes, we don't want to put anyone out of order having to setup a _Serato_ folder that causes crashes. If you got it working well then thats cool and I don't want you to mess with that.

It sounds like you in particular have organized a large amount of files to the point where it works for you... I think your library still might be handy then, so please upload :)
Robbyy 12:03 AM 1 August 2013
I currently have 180,00 to 210,00 songs and about 125 crates. I use Serato Sratch live with the SL2 box. It has worked great for years, even adding music every week. In Dec of last yr I started to get a Windows box popping up after I loaded my first track of the event in either deck saying Scratch Live application has stopped working, A problem has caused the program to shut down. I up graded my ram from 4 to 8gb but that hasn't helped. Windows 7 home edition 64 bit on a Sony Viao. I use a external drive too. I haven't been able to figure it out. I also noticed it would take serato close to 30 to 50 seconds to read all my crates. I have to many events lined up this summer to mess with it. I'm currently using VDJ with Denon MC3000 controller and NO Problem with the size of music I have. Works great!!! I would rather use serato but this problem has left me clueless. I even made a smaller music drive with 80,000 songs to test it out and the same problem happened so now my SL2 box is collecting dust :( Do I have to much music that the software can't function?????? I would much rather use Serato than VDJ but VDj seems to read any file and play everything I have in my drive
Papa Midnight 12:45 AM 1 August 2013
So Robbyy, why don't you submit your database as well to help with this?

By the way, upgrading your RAM beyond 4GB, while useful, will not solve this issue. Serato Applications seem to be dieing at around 1.6-1.8GiB of memory usage from what we're all seeing.

As for your crate loading time, while the size of your database is certainly a factor, that's more based around your processor I'm noticing. Even my lower clocked Mobile i5 (2nd Gen) loads up my database faster than my Mobile Core 2 Duo machines; and the third-gen Mobile i7? It's not even funny...
tamoriginal 2:32 AM 1 August 2013
That's it. I'm sticking with Itch... added about 200 songs to DBase now SDJ is up to the same crap again... crashes whenever it see the controller.
Robbyy 3:43 AM 1 August 2013
DJ PM, Explain how I would submit my database? This is my first time leaving a comment in the forums of serato. Thanks
Papa Midnight 4:11 AM 1 August 2013
Here you go Robbyy. Straight from Martin C (serato.com).

Quote:
Hey guys,

Work still continues here and I wanted to get a few more databases from you all. This is so that we can continue to test large libraries with real use cases AS well as some libraries we simulate here. I have a few already, but would like more :)

Please only do this with a library system that CRASHES when used with Serato DJ.
Please follow these instructions carefully if you wish to participate:

Quote:
1. Close all programs.
2. Go to your systems default music folder.
3. Right click > copy, the "_Serato_" folder.
4. Paste to your desktop.
5. Now open the _Serato_ folder and if you have a "recordings" folder, please send it to the trash/recycle bin. (The reason for this is I don't need this for the testing, but if you have recordings in it, it will take up a lot of unnecessary space, making the file bigger to upload to me.)
6. Right click then either "Compress" or "Zip" the folder.
7. Rename the zipped file as "_Serato_Your_Username" (Just so I can tell whos is whos).
7. Go to the following URL: serato.com
8. Upload the zipped up folder.
9. In the description of the file please put "ATT: MARTIN" and then list whether you use Windows or Mac.


Please make sure you follow all instructions, I don't want you guys messing up your libraries in any other ways. Let me know if you have questions, and thanks heaps if you make the effort to do this for me :)
Martin C 6:52 AM 1 August 2013
Ah cheers Papa Midnight!

I still have nowhere near the amount databases compared to the amount of people involved in this thread. I know this issue is really annoying guys but please help me! :)

Let me know if you upload a _Serato_ folder so I can check in the uploaded files list for yours.
Kittmaster 12:26 PM 1 August 2013
Hi Martin,

I know its frustrating, and it perplexes me as well as to why people can take the time to bitch and complain, just trip over the goal line to help resolve the problem.

I think its a fair assessment that if you can get my library to load, you'll have a good barometer to know if the fix is proper.

Keep in mind, once you get mine to load and I test it here, I'm really going to turn up the heat for serato and load in the remaining 400K samples, videos, clips, and all the rest of media, then you'll know if you really have a winner.

Regards,
Chris
dj-nice 2:31 PM 1 August 2013
got a mail or a Facebook message that Serato developer proudly present new FX.....thats the reason why we never will get a stable database. The person who classified the developments has apparently no interest for a handful of people to fix the bugs in the database.

Since 2 years, I will put off. Its Time now to told me / us honestly if it will really be done.
Otherwise we have to talk about refund. Your support told me to buy SDJ (from Itch), because of a fixed Database. So i sold the DX, got a VCI400 and could use it for month.
Papa Midnight 3:52 PM 1 August 2013
Quote:
I think its a fair assessment that if you can get my library to load, you'll have a good barometer to know if the fix is proper.

Keep in mind, once you get mine to load and I test it here, I'm really going to turn up the heat for serato and load in the remaining 400K samples, videos, clips, and all the rest of media, then you'll know if you really have a winner.


This. I'll load up all my media into my database if I hear it's been fixed and is working and we'll give this a true test.
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:02 PM 1 August 2013
Martin why don't you make a stick with this info and how to upload ect then lock that sticky then you might just get alot more databases... i will try and spread the word, and have uploaded mine.
Martin C 8:49 PM 1 August 2013
Quote:
I know its frustrating, and it perplexes me as well as to why people can take the time to bitch and complain, just trip over the goal line to help resolve the problem.

I think its a fair assessment that if you can get my library to load, you'll have a good barometer to know if the fix is proper.


I am not really that frustrated at all. I personally don't have this library problem, the people in this discussion do. I am just trying to do my job by passing on what development has requested of me :)

Im really glad you sent me yours Kittmaster, its a great test library and as you say "barometer". Its fairly safe to say that if development can get your library loading, then yes the problem hopefully is resolved - but the point of asking for many libraries is like trying to get a more accurate "sample" when taking a survey.

Remember, users reach the limit in a few different ways: too many files, too many crates or too many subcrates OR big iTunes Libraries + playlists. Development wants to try and test as many scenarios as possible.

Quote:
Keep in mind, once you get mine to load and I test it here, I'm really going to turn up the heat for serato and load in the remaining 400K samples, videos, clips, and all the rest of media, then you'll know if you really have a winner.



Hmmm, is it possible to turn up the heat more than what you already have? Can you make a test library that will crash Scratch Live offline player the way you describe? Or does the library you gave me already crash Scratch Live offline player for you?

Quote:
got a mail or a Facebook message that Serato developer proudly present new FX.....thats the reason why we never will get a stable database. The person who classified the developments has apparently no interest for a handful of people to fix the bugs in the database.

Since 2 years, I will put off. Its Time now to told me / us honestly if it will really be done.
Otherwise we have to talk about refund. Your support told me to buy SDJ (from Itch), because of a fixed Database. So i sold the DX, got a VCI400 and could use it for month.


Just because a developer writes a quick blog post about FX this becomes new information for you? Its fairly obvious our developers work on things OTHER than just this issue all the time without having to get a facebook message about it.

We have gone through it many times in this discussion already, how things must be evenly prioritized to satisfy various parties and maintain/improve various aspects of the software.

Quote:
Your support told me to buy SDJ (from Itch), because of a fixed Database.


Where did this happen? I recall you had downloaded the offline player before you even purchased any Serato DJ controller and you were having problems loading your library. It seems fairly odd that someone from support would recommend that buying a license/controller would fix your problem. If this is true, I am very sorry. Please provide me a link to where this happened.

Quote:
Martin why don't you make a stick with this info and how to upload ect then lock that sticky then you might just get alot more databases... i will try and spread the word, and have uploaded mine.


I have thought about this, but I am hesitant that I will just get sent databases that don't even have the problem/people that don't understand what I am trying to do. I have seen this kind of thing happen before.

The discussion is the most central place for people with this problem... but I will think about your suggestion still, its not a bad idea.
Kittmaster 10:04 PM 1 August 2013
Martin,

I believe the sample that I gave you is what works in ITCH but not DJ, and then did one that was using the folder to crate method (preferred)....but fails in both (all the subcrate info is the reason I suspect > 5000 subfolders vs. the 53 crates I have to make it work)

All my multi media and other stuff is spanned across other systems do to it's sheer size and content. This laptop where I do the audio aspect of it is only 1TB so I don't do video files, audio samples, and other media on this system. When Serato can fix the both audio scenarios for loading the files into the library, I'll have a better handle about merging it all onto a primary system and build a 400K+ database system for you. Right now it takes a while to get them all on one system, and there is really no way try and organize it "on the fly", so it's not something I can just whip up for the 400K setup.

Hopefully this is coming soon....... :(
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:13 AM 2 August 2013
Good point makes sence Martin.
TimmoB 2:52 PM 8 August 2013
Hello from Germany!

I posted my problem with the "big" library already in the german forum, but it seems that the german guys haven't such issues with this, or noboby complains...

However... I recently got a Pioneer DDJ-SX with Serato DJ. My Notebook Specs: Intel Core 2Duo 2,26 Ghz, 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Prof. 64 bit (just reinstalled).

At the first gigs Serato worked perfectly, runs absolutely stable without any problem. Then I decided to analyze my whole library from Itunes in Serato. This is about 180GB, 25.000 Tracks, devided into 40 playlist crates.

After the analyzing process - if i I try to load a track, sampler etc.- this "Serato isn't working anymore ->close program" Windows message shows up.

So I deleted all Database/Backup folders, started with an empty library and... now it worked again!
If I compare the empty database file with the full analyzed file, there is only a different of about 2mb! Size is about 14mb

Is there a solution for this problem by now, or are you still developing an update to fix it??
Or any other ideas to solve this?

Best regards,
Timo
dj lashes 3:52 PM 8 August 2013
cut a long story ... they are still working on it.
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:13 PM 8 August 2013
Quote:
cut a long story ... they are still working on it.


Cut it even short they are Looking into it. ;-)
dj-nice 5:49 PM 8 August 2013
wait for a bugfix since 2 years and bet, we will wait 2 more years.
Kittmaster 6:04 PM 8 August 2013
I don't think it will be 2 years, the problem is really starting to hit the normal users as well....it's in their own best interest to get this fixed ASAP.....it's getting to the point that people on facebook groups that deal with Serato software are starting to suggest that the a lot of the issues are systemic from large libraries.

They really need to stop the bleeding.....all these added features are worthless IMO, I'd rather have the stability that I see in 1.5....but that is just my opinion.
dj-nice 6:10 PM 8 August 2013
Quote:

Quote:
Your support told me to buy SDJ (from Itch), because of a fixed Database.


Where did this happen? I recall you had downloaded the offline player before you even purchased any Serato DJ controller and you were having problems loading your library. It seems fairly odd that someone from support would recommend that buying a license/controller would fix your problem. If this is true, I am very sorry. Please provide me a link to where this happened.


try to search....

dj-nice 11:52 AM - 4 October, 2012
what about the memory leak in SERATO DJ? Are there the same problems with bigger databases?

Scott S 12:22 AM - 5 October, 2012
We have done a lot of work on the way the library functions and receives data from the database in Serato DJ, so hopefully the issues will be fixed! :)

I played around with the SDJ Offline Player and had no problems with the first versions of SDJ. But the first Time i used the VCI 400, it crashed. This is caused by the abnormal Ram consumption when you plug in a MIDI console.

Look to the used RAM by SDJ with and without a VCI400

And.....the RAM consumption grows up with every new version of SDJ
nik39 7:41 PM 8 August 2013
This issue has been know for much longer...
Ragman 8:41 PM 8 August 2013
Quote:
This issue has been know for much longer...

You beat me to it. I've seen posts and threads on this seems like 4ever.
Kittmaster 9:10 PM 8 August 2013
I think I started my thread around the first of October 2011......yep, almost two years now.... :(
TimmoB 10:03 PM 8 August 2013
Hmm... today i recognized that I have the same problem, if I start with an empty DB (delete the Folders on my external drive), then restart Serato (folders are created again), but even without doing the analyze process! :-/

Seems that there is also a problem with my external drive, because when i loadtracks from my internal notebook hdd, it works without showing up the fail-message!

Or maybe there is an issue with my Itunes library in serato...?
DjSyndic8 10:13 PM 8 August 2013
knock knock ...........Hello any body there ............................ na they hear us .....................But they wont acknowledge the problem
nik39 10:41 PM 8 August 2013
Quote:
Quote:
This issue has been know for much longer...

You beat me to it. I've seen posts and threads on this seems like 4ever.

To be fair... its not uncommon to focus on bugs and issues which affect the majority of users. Looks like back then only a very few people had the issues and a "workaround" (reducing the size of your lib) is know. But now... libraries are getting bigger and bigger. More people are affected and I am sure Serato will raise the priority.

The more people post about the issue, the higher this will be prioritized I hope.
LJ_WOOLSEY 12:05 AM 9 August 2013
Also have all you moaning sent Martin C from serato your databases???? They NEED these to work on a fix.
Martin C 3:07 AM 10 August 2013
Quote:
Also have all you moaning sent Martin C from serato your databases???? They NEED these to work on a fix.


Yes, please send them ;) and let me know when you have done so in this discussion so I can search for it in the uploaded files list.
sasa1981 3:46 AM 10 August 2013
You can find my files under:

serato.com
qpoppa 7:41 AM 10 August 2013
I have the same problem...I will be sending my database asap...Thanks
Martin C 1:13 PM 11 August 2013
Thanks for your contribution sasa1981 :)
DJ Hypnosis 3:58 AM 12 August 2013
I downloaded the Serato DJ 1.2 trial version to test out with my Reloop Terminal Mix 4. In the mist of me loading my music into my crates the system froze and crashed on me. Saying memory is to full. I have over 120,000 songs on my external hard drive. Will this issue be fixed? Or how can I fix this issue?
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:09 AM 12 August 2013
Quote:
Hey guys,

Work still continues here and I wanted to get a few more databases from you all. This is so that we can continue to test large libraries with real use cases AS well as some libraries we simulate here. I have a few already, but would like more :)

Please only do this with a library system that CRASHES when used with Serato DJ.
Please follow these instructions carefully if you wish to participate:

Quote:
1. Close all programs.
2. Go to your systems default music folder.
3. Right click > copy, the "_Serato_" folder.
4. Paste to your desktop.
5. Now open the _Serato_ folder and if you have a "recordings" folder, please send it to the trash/recycle bin. (The reason for this is I don't need this for the testing, but if you have recordings in it, it will take up a lot of unnecessary space, making the file bigger to upload to me.)
6. Right click then either "Compress" or "Zip" the folder.
7. Rename the zipped file as "_Serato_Your_Username" (Just so I can tell whos is whos).
7. Go to the following URL: serato.com
8. Upload the zipped up folder.
9. In the description of the file please put "ATT: MARTIN" and then list whether you use Windows or Mac.


Please make sure you follow all instructions, I don't want you guys messing up your libraries in any other ways. Let me know if you have questions, and thanks heaps if you make the effort to do this for me :)
DJ Hypnosis 2:10 PM 12 August 2013
Ok I clicked on the link to upload and it's not taking it me to the page...so where do I upload this. 2) this is not my entire file cause it crashed when I was making my crates saying out of memory. But I have the file ready to send to yoiu
LJ_WOOLSEY 3:42 PM 12 August 2013
Link works fine for me.
Kittmaster 3:46 PM 12 August 2013
me too:

serato.com

try again
DJ Hypnosis 7:54 PM 12 August 2013
I uploaded my files and put attn: Martin
Kittmaster 10:17 PM 12 August 2013
Thanks......come on guys, keep it coming so we can get some closure here.
Martin C 6:02 AM 13 August 2013
Thanks very much DJ Hypnosis!
Colemang70 11:30 PM 13 August 2013
database file sent moments ago from my mac laptop 24mb in with 42,097 songs loaded into serato dj. no crates, no subcrates. just drag and dropped everything to all no anayzling just build the database. will get my current database from my pc also send it today.
Colemang70 11:40 PM 13 August 2013
just sent my main pc laptop database I forgot attn. martin sorry will redo it. its 34mb in size with originally 113,323 songs in it. I'm running second hard drives in both the pc and mac laptops.
Martin C 12:04 AM 15 August 2013
Cheers Colemang70, I got your files :)
Colemang70 5:28 AM 15 August 2013
just upload a second pc database its 64mb and has 81,000 songs only it not been analyzed just import into serato dj, no subcrates and serato dj is using with no controller connected 940,000k of ram on the laptop durning just open that 64mb database. i'm using the same songs to build database in djuced 4.0, virtual dj 7 with post the results later

v/r
George
Martin C 3:21 AM 16 August 2013
Hmmm did that upload complete? I can't grab it for some reason, but I can see that you started something. Do you mind trying one more time? I would be keen for that one more than the previous smaller ones.
Colemang70 10:55 AM 19 August 2013
upload the file again from second pc laptop
Colemang70 11:00 AM 19 August 2013
update virtual dj loaded and started scanning just all of those files and its database was roughly 48.5mb and djuced 4.0 took all of the same songs with no problem and I can even play songs and have controller connected these application won't crash with all of those songs. Just maybe running a two part database solution or improving your current database scheme will allow for a more robust solution and both of these application are 32-bit. So something in the code is causing the memory leak that cause the application to crash around 1.5 gb being used. I have seen serato lockup and shutdown on large megamix and a corrupt song. The djuced and vdj just say error and these applications keep running.

v/r
George
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 7:26 PM 19 August 2013
martin c i just sent u mines and im sorry for the very long wait i know i had said i would send before

please fix this man i love my serato but if this isnt fixed
im realy not feeling buying an ns72 i own 2 ns7's now like i want the new ones

and this is realy getting disapointing and affecting my choice on buying 2 or not even 1 at this point


and yes i know your not the one personaly in charge ur just trying to find a solution well tell them i said if we can send people to the moon then they can surely fix tihs lol
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 7:29 PM 19 August 2013
by the way my name is on the file with no caps
DmVinny 4:38 AM 20 August 2013
I think Serato SL and DJ just need to go 64bit already.
DjSyndic8 4:47 AM 20 August 2013
Quote:
I think Serato SL and DJ just need to go 64bit already.


+1
sasa1981 5:22 AM 20 August 2013
Quote:
Quote:
I think Serato SL and DJ just need to go 64bit already.




+1


+1
Martin C 6:03 AM 20 August 2013
Thanks Colemang70 and DJSMOOTHBLENDZ :)

Quote:
Just maybe running a two part database solution or improving your current database scheme will allow for a more robust solution and both of these application are 32-bit.


Yes, we initially plan to make progress with this issue using what we have already, a 32 bit application. I would personally feel a lot better about nailing that before just moving to 64 bit for two reasons:

- Because we should be able to reduce our memory usage as is. If we just jump to 64 bit it kinda feels like we are just running away from the problem instead of dealing with it.
- 64 bit is a lot more work than just making it happen and presents significant hurdles for us and the technology we use currently. However ultimately we want to remove those hurdles and be 64 bit without a doubt :)

Work is still in progress, so definitely appreciate you guys taking the time to send me your libraries, we hope to bring some results to you soon.
Colemang70 6:00 PM 20 August 2013
the other dj application aren't 64-bit and they are handling the larger database now in 32-bit so i can be fixed; in Serato defense give the needed to better build a more solid 64-bit out of the gates instead of a flood of patch updates after it is released unstable and buggy

yes i want access to my whole hard drive in reality i wont use the whole hard drive major of the time at gigs so i just have to pick a certain amount stay stable until there's a right fix.

v/r
george
Martin C 10:09 PM 20 August 2013
Cheers George, I couldn't agree with you more. I appreciate your patience and understanding on this issue, and making the software still work for you by being selective.

I hope this workaround will become a thing of the past one day!
a747eagle 7:02 PM 23 August 2013
ATTN: Martin

I just uploaded my Serato file for your review...
DJ Quartz 7:51 PM 23 August 2013
I've said it before, if you're having crashing issues with large databases, you WILL have to break it up.

There is NOTHING you can do otherwise until the application is reloaded.
DJ Jorge Miami 3:20 AM 24 August 2013
Serato,

What is your release date that fixes the large database problem?

You keep coming out with new features that Mobile Djs with large database cannot use. I am stuck on release 1.1.2 because your software crashes if I upgrade.

This is going on for a long time and is embarrassing. I read the 32 and 64 bit explanation and all that is fine.

When is going to be fix? We need a date.
dj-nice 7:56 AM 24 August 2013
Serato knows this problem over 2 Years now. I think, they could not fix it soon, cause the have to code a nearly new Database interface. They told us, thatr they work on this problem since 2 years now. LOL......look for alternatives!
Papa Midnight 9:13 AM 24 August 2013
Quote:
You keep coming out with new features that Mobile Djs with large database cannot use. I am stuck on release 1.1.2 because your software crashes if I upgrade.

If you're crashing on 1.2+ and not on 1.1.2, I doubt it is related to the database issue. I'd open a help ticket as this sounds like something entirely different. Between ITCH and SDJ, there is no discrimination in the database crash. SSL might be the only one with a slight bit of leeway due to it's usage of significantly less system resources.
DJ Quartz 5:09 PM 24 August 2013
I was going to suggest try running with a small database and see what happens.
DJD-Money 7:17 PM 24 August 2013
if serato cannot fix this database issue i am switching to VDJ8 Period i am in the same boat with everyone else Mobile DJ with lots of files. i love serato been here since day one with scratch live and now serato dj but i just cant take it anymore.
DJ Quartz 7:26 PM 24 August 2013
How many files do you have?

The consensus I'm seeing is once people hit 100k that's when the nightmares start for MacOS

But anyone with more that I think 1000 crates or 80k+ on Windows that's when it starts.
Kittmaster 7:26 PM 24 August 2013
Well one thing is clear, they are now actively working on it since they are looking for database examples......let's hope they can fix this BEFORE Christmas gigs start.....

They are costing me thousands of dollars by having two separate pieces of hardware to do the audio and video separately since adding more videos just compounds the problem.
Kittmaster 7:31 PM 24 August 2013
Quote:
How many files do you have?

The consensus I'm seeing is once people hit 100k that's when the nightmares start for MacOS

But anyone with more that I think 1000 crates or 80k+ on Windows that's when it starts.


That is a good generalization.....I really start to see it as the subcrates number increases....I had like (10K ish?) subcrates at one point (subfolders) and that could easily cause it to crash. When I move to 80 crates with no subcrates, it allows me to load 85K songs into ITCH 1.5......anything newer like 1.7, 2.0, etc......crash. I'm sure I'm on the teetering edge with 85K in 1.5, but I have no other out right now. Just always have a live backup for critical songs or ceremony sequences.
Papa Midnight 9:27 PM 24 August 2013
Quote:
That is a good generalization.....I really start to see it as the subcrates number increases....I had like (10K ish?) subcrates at one point (subfolders) and that could easily cause it to crash.

This. I had no where near 10,000, but I had my own fair share from Billboard, Now That's what I call Music, Whitelabels, and Individual Promo Only's that had it through the roof.
Martin C 10:37 PM 25 August 2013
Thank you a747eagle :)
Colemang70 6:59 PM 27 August 2013
Martin C i'm building a new database on the new version of Serato DJ so far the app has crashed once while scanning songs and crashed everytimes i have tried connecting the Pioneer DDJ-SX to my pc laptop. Once testing is completed I will change over an older blk macbook to see if it gives the same errors and crashes with the same amount of songs

v/r
George
Martin C 8:29 AM 28 August 2013
Hey Colemang70, that issue may be a little different than the memory limit. I would recommend creating a help request for that particular issue.
Papa Midnight 1:54 AM 5 September 2013
Martin, with the announcement of 1.5, is Serato possibly looking at 1.4 as a maintenance release in which there may be a fix for this?

I know, I'm being optimistic, but a guy can hope.
Kittmaster 1:58 AM 5 September 2013
Hope and pray is the word.....I'd love to be able to bury this thread.
Martin C 2:17 AM 5 September 2013
Hey Papa Midnight. Valid bump for sure, but unfortunately I can't confirm whether or not any of the memory saving work will make it into Serato DJ 1.5. Please have patience though, I am hoping some results will come through to the public soon.

I can confirm there will not be a Serato DJ 1.4 version.
dj-nice 6:52 AM 5 September 2013
Sounds like Duke Nukem Forever
Kittmaster 12:55 PM 5 September 2013
Quote:
Sounds like Duke Nukem Forever


Right on point.....but let's keep adding new features instead of fixing operation.....brilliant.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:31 PM 5 September 2013
you wait till all the SSL users move to SDJ, Serato will have a shit storm of users who have this issue!! should be enough to make it jump the hold list and have all devs working on it!

so if its not fixed before Feb 2014 it soon will after lol
sasa1981 2:48 PM 5 September 2013
Looks like I will need to buy new interface hopefully all issues would be fixed before sl1 support ends.
Certified Quality Entertainment 4:57 PM 5 September 2013
Quote:
you wait till all the SSL users move to SDJ, Serato will have a shit storm of users who have this issue!! should be enough to make it jump the hold list and have all devs working on it!



so if its not fixed before Feb 2014 it soon will after lol


+1 Once all the SSL people with large libraries come over and start having problems it may be a much bigger issue.
For the record, I have about 22k songs and use a SDJ with my DDJSX and I haven't had 1 problem since I started using it back in January. **knocks on wood**
djcrap 5:37 PM 5 September 2013
Quote:
you wait till all the SSL users move to SDJ, Serato will have a shit storm of users who have this issue!! should be enough to make it jump the hold list and have all devs working on it!

so if its not fixed before Feb 2014 it soon will after lol


My two cents exactly!

Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.
DJ_X_Trodinaire 10:37 PM 5 September 2013
Samuel S 12:02 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.


It would be ridiculous to fix this in Scratch Live, then move everyone to a new piece of software. One of the core reasons for moving to Serato DJ is that it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things in and much easier to develop into the future.

It's also one platform to focus all our development efforts into which means we can work towards fixing these issues much sooner and do it properly!

Sam.
DjSyndic8 1:00 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.


It would be ridiculous to fix this in Scratch Live, then move everyone to a new piece of software. One of the core reasons for moving to Serato DJ is that it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things in and much easier to develop into the future.

It's also one platform to focus all our development efforts into which means we can work towards fixing these issues much sooner and do it properly!

Sam.


Still waiting Patiently Sam
DjSyndic8 1:02 AM 6 September 2013


so the issue coud be in the subcrates
Samuel S 1:18 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.


It would be ridiculous to fix this in Scratch Live, then move everyone to a new piece of software. One of the core reasons for moving to Serato DJ is that it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things in and much easier to develop into the future.

It's also one platform to focus all our development efforts into which means we can work towards fixing these issues much sooner and do it properly!

Sam.


Still waiting Patiently Sam


I know you all are. This is a step in the right direction trust me.
Kittmaster 2:07 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.


It would be ridiculous to fix this in Scratch Live, then move everyone to a new piece of software. One of the core reasons for moving to Serato DJ is that it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things in and much easier to develop into the future.

It's also one platform to focus all our development efforts into which means we can work towards fixing these issues much sooner and do it properly!

Sam.


Hi Sam,

We all understand this perspective, but its already been two years.....longer for others when the problem emerged.....this should have been fixed when DJ was released....IMO.

It's unimaginable that this issue has run this long, it just makes everyone look bad, and what's worse is we can never get an answer for whatever reason. Now with video it's even worse as adding 10k-15k additional video tracks just blows it up even more.

We get all new features and new memory added stuff, yet this issue continues to take a back burner, it just doesn't make any sense.

You have provided a road map for all the next rev's, why can't we get a roadmap of this fix?

Regards,
Chris
Martin C 3:18 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
It's unimaginable that this issue has run this long, it just makes everyone look bad, and what's worse is we can never get an answer for whatever reason.


How have we not answered you guys? We personally, as customer facing staff, can't provide you the solution but we have provided you with all the honest answers that we possibly can.

We can only provide roadmaps for things that we are 100% confident in delivering. Although we have something in the works for the memory issue, we are still not 100% confident its going to solve everyones issue.

How much worse it would be if we promised a fix by a certain date that we didn't deliver? I would rather not disappoint you guys even further by making promises like that.
sasa1981 4:35 AM 6 September 2013
Serato has been saying same thing for two years just fix it.
dj-nice 6:39 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
......it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things.......Sam.

so -please- fix it
Samuel S 7:12 AM 6 September 2013
That's what we are doing.
beisi 9:27 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
......it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things.......Sam.

so -please- fix it


this.

loving the new innovations and like SDJ in general but this really is the archillies heel of Serato

Granted it's integration isn't as deep, but, Traktor can open and use my itunes library on my win7 pc laptop in it's entirety without crashing. SDJ cannot and I have to maintain a special cut down Serato only library to use it.

Fix this and the whole 'stability is always our core focus thing' will ring true again!
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:55 AM 6 September 2013
I take it Martin has a copy of all the people moaning here _serato_ database??? Because that is what he needs to help the dev team work on this issue! And he has posted before not many from this thread has provided this! So why not at least try help these guys at serato so they can go on to help us?

It may have been two years but that was a very low number of users so was not a priority to fix, it is now starting tobe more so with sdj and once ssl users come to sdj serato will have a much larger user base with the issue and you will find it will become top priority.

I have hope 2014 will see some improvments.
Kittmaster 11:44 AM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
It's unimaginable that this issue has run this long, it just makes everyone look bad, and what's worse is we can never get an answer for whatever reason.


How have we not answered you guys? We personally, as customer facing staff, can't provide you the solution but we have provided you with all the honest answers that we possibly can.

We can only provide roadmaps for things that we are 100% confident in delivering. Although we have something in the works for the memory issue, we are still not 100% confident its going to solve everyones issue.

How much worse it would be if we promised a fix by a certain date that we didn't deliver? I would rather not disappoint you guys even further by making promises like that.


Martin,

I completely understand the position, it's not that Serato has not answered, it's that Serato has done nothing. Honest answers don't fix a program that crashes. Here's an example. I reduced my database down one time as mentioned (~40K), then one of my bridal parties attendants handed me a USB drive with about 100 songs on it, I drag it in... BLAM, out of memory.....just before the wedding party introduction.....You ok with that? Still an acceptable scenario? I was LUCKY that it was before the wedding truly began. Who looks bad me or Serato? ME, because I am the pro servicing them, and I am using a tool that has become shaky at best following the instructions given.

Seems to be plenty of time to add new FX, remote apps, and the entire array new features (Revenue, yes we understand).....and also not to forget that I can't recall where, when DJ was first being dev'd that the library issue was "supposed" to be fixed from ITCH to DJ (Yes that was mentioned buried somewhere here or in the forums) and we end up finding out that everything else is new.....but the library system.

We understand about promises and delivery time slips....it happens all the time. If Serato has "something in the works" why not build a separate beta that gives us access to all of the library "fixes" and let us provide REAL feedback of if it's going in the right direction? We've YET to ever see that regarding this issue. Maybe you'll surprise us with 1.5, one can only hope.
djcrap 10:22 PM 6 September 2013
^^^^ haaaa that's exactly the point i was raising it would suck to be at an event and your laptop says out of memory due to your large library.
djcrap 10:35 PM 6 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Serato needs to address the library issue before completly moving ssl users to sdj. Because when it comes to dvs a djs library is the heart of all his operations to a successful gig. if they wait till its to late this will be too much noise on the forum and bad negative publicity for sdj and serato . Due to the fact that ssl users lossings alot of features coming from an old stable dvs which can handle large libraries with no issues.


It would be ridiculous to fix this in Scratch Live, then move everyone to a new piece of software. One of the core reasons for moving to Serato DJ is that it's a platform that is much less resistant to change, much easier to fix things in and much easier to develop into the future.

It's also one platform to focus all our development efforts into which means we can work towards fixing these issues much sooner and do it properly!

Sam.


yes it would be ridiculous to fix this in scratch live i understand. my point exactly is serato is better off fixing it in serato dj now since the sad part about this issue is it has been around for 2 years with out being fixed. i mean it's about time to fix it . lets faced it we all know serato is under staffed so logically it would make since to reduce the work load before 2014 when all scratchlive dvs users start to be integrated / migrated to the new dvs 1.6.
djcrap 10:36 PM 6 September 2013
scince = sense
smarky-smark 1:51 AM 9 September 2013
Quote:



Martin,

I completely understand the position, it's not that Serato has not answered, it's that Serato has done nothing. Honest answers don't fix a program that crashes. Here's an example. I reduced my database down one time as mentioned (~40K), then one of my bridal parties attendants handed me a USB drive with about 100 songs on it, I drag it in... BLAM, out of memory.....just before the wedding party introduction.....You ok with that? Still an acceptable scenario? I was LUCKY that it was before the wedding truly began. Who looks bad me or Serato? ME, because I am the pro servicing them, and I am using a tool that has become shaky at best following the instructions given.

Seems to be plenty of time to add new FX, remote apps, and the entire array new features (Revenue, yes we understand).....and also not to forget that I can't recall where, when DJ was first being dev'd that the library issue was "supposed" to be fixed from ITCH to DJ (Yes that was mentioned buried somewhere here or in the forums) and we end up finding out that everything else is new.....but the library system.

We understand about promises and delivery time slips....it happens all the time. If Serato has "something in the works" why not build a separate beta that gives us access to all of the library "fixes" and let us provide REAL feedback of if it's going in the right direction? We've YET to ever see that regarding this issue. Maybe you'll surprise us with 1.5, one can only hope.




-->> what's really crazy is it seems that the updates to the program seem to make the library issue worse because multi effects, serato remote, a dvs (I'm sure), etc use MORE memory

Kitt when I do shows that require large libraries (especially weddings). I take my mac with serato AND also a PC with otsav 1.8.. It's interface is similar to an old school dual cd player (I used to use denon) but it can hold a 60000 plus video library u "can" mix with it, and it does not crash..
Don't get me wrong I'd never give up my serato, but I also won't give up the other program either.. It, to me is like a mechanic only having a screwdriver in his toolbox.

Some tools are made for certain specialties.. Serato is not a workhorse it is a precision instrument designed to give DJs that want to control with vinyl the ability to do just that..

It was hard for me to come to terms with that realization but I have ..
dj t-money 5:45 AM 9 September 2013
To this us topic its really unfair frustrating, and disgusting to us users. I just want to know why can't serato sort this problem out, tractor, cross dj, virtual dj etc don't have this problem so why one the most popular dj software having this problem for over 3+ year and can't be sorted out?
dj-nice 7:38 AM 9 September 2013
Quote:
....it seems that the updates to the program seem to make the library issue worse because multi effects, serato remote, a dvs (I'm sure), etc use MORE memory


thats true. The "problem" grows up with every new update since update Itch 1.x -> 2.0
nojretlas 6:16 PM 9 September 2013
I agree with everything said here!
mozeca 5:06 AM 13 September 2013
Firstly, allow me to apologise in advance for keeping it real. But this is BS. Take this as constructive criticism.

Description of my problem. I've raised a help request, but had no response.

I have tried serato dj on two separate laptops. I have the latest drivers on both machines. Updated the firmware on the DDJ SX.



Laptop 1 toshiba W7 64bit core2 duo 2.4ghz 4gb ram, enough space storage space.



Great machine, does everything well, except serato dj. SDJ 1.3 barely runs, "not enough space to perform this operation" notification. constant crashing without notification, or just the standard windows notification “a problem has occurred, windows will notify of solution”. Which doesn’t. Insufficient memory for task. Tried SDJ 1.2, a little better, got me a little further, but same problem. Every time I try to load a song, crash and burn.



Laptop 2 crappy old banged out HP W7 32bit 1.6hz AMD 4gb ram , enough space storage space.



Serato 1.2 runs, but poorly due to old AMD processor not being able to handle it. Barely able to play tracks on each deck, with terrible delay, loading effects and hotcues is barely possible. Got some initial fun, but mostly sadness, frustration and forum revelations disappointment. Because you can’t provide the functional software, I have to try and fish for a super laptop from 2005 or buy a new one. Then which one? Your laptop buying guide is useless by the way.



Laptop 2 is currently at home loading the enormous library, by the rate, I guess it’ll be finished…. sometime next week. If it ever does, I’ll try to upload this most wanted “large library database file” somehow. Surprised pioneer developers haven’t just “simulated” a test database of their own, rather than beg on the forum for one. It’s called logical problem solving, not customer inconvenience.



In my opinion, Pioneer and Serato are well and truly tripping. I’m overwhelmed by the amount of complaints I’ve seen here, without reading all of it!



On the features and FAQ part of your website, spec requirements are indicated, for both 32bit and 64bit.

Mac
-Mac OS X 10.7.4 / 10.6.8
32-bit: Intel processor, 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo; 1GB RAM
64-bit: Intel processor, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo; 4GB RAM
-1280 x 720 screen resolution
-Available USB 2.0 port

Windows
-Windows 7
32-bit: Intel processor, 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo; 2GB RAM
64-bit: Intel processor, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo; 4GB RAM
-1280 x 720 screen resolution
-Available USB 2.0 port

Now these forums have made it evident that’s not really the case.

Quote:



“but if I am to be honest, the limitation lies deep within the fact that our software are currently 32-bit applications..”

Shouldnt that statement be more clear on the required specifications?

When customers are paying good money for their controllers, it’s only fair to say, that pioneer and serato, whoever’s responsibility from this JV is, should be providing software compatible with current market standard laptops, updating their website for pre-purchase decision purposes. You can develop an ipad remote control app, but not a software that adequately controls the actual controller. That’s pure gold.



Serato’s customer complaints policy clearly states: “Ain’t nobody got time for that”.



Finding a laptop with a non-windows 8 OS that is not a 64bit with a decent processor and enough ram these days isn’t easy, in reality, impossible, or not the best value for money purchase. Reformat with W7 32bit for a machine build for 64. Not the IT expert, but sounds a bit like buying a 2013 audi a5 and modifying to look like a 2002 Honda civic. Some of us have other functions we’d like to use a laptop for too.



A Macbook pro is safely double the money for similar specs. Some of us just aren’t into Apple products, or aren’t coin earning professionals able to justify the unnecessary expense. I’m not so confident that I’ll have guaranteed success with a macbook pro either. So can you see how much more I could not justify the investment? Most other software/hardware developers will provide the compatibility with both 32 and 64bit for W7&8.



Why can’t pioneer/serato do this with it’s supposedly leading edge technology dj hardware/software…?



Suggestion:



Just like internet service providers often liaise with modem manufacturers to produce what is often called an “approved modem list” they actually offer support for. I’m positive many laptop manufacturers would consider running trials to get some of their series of laptops onto these approved laptops lists, “guaranteed to work”, even provide potential phone support from their already existing customer service infrastructure for Serato users... Pioneer should at least.

Let’s face it, this forum is good for chit-chatting, complaining and moral support! But it sure sucks for actually providing solutions. so does your help request.


Questions:

Do you have a list of approved laptops?

Do you have any predictions on when the software will be reliable on windows 8 32 and 64??

i heard it may be possible to run the program on a 64bit environment but in a 32-bit mode. anyone?
Daniel D. 8:34 AM 13 September 2013
Thank you very much mozeca!!! I couldn´t have said it better myself.
sasa1981 10:20 PM 13 September 2013
Mozesca you sum it all. I have same problem and probably have one of the fastest laptops on the market and serato dj crash all the time running win 7 64bit. I opened support request and their resolution is to lover crates and my song count. Which is not really option for me. I'm hoping we will see solution soon since serato is not providing us with updates they are busy integrating serato into serato dj.
mozeca 2:35 AM 15 September 2013
Potential solution:

Tested Serato on a friend’s W7 32bit laptop with slight less specs than laptop1. Worked fine. Note, believe there is no itunes on that laptop.

After observing (laptop 1) the program boot sequence sh#t itself several times, I figured Itunes had to go. Since that infamous update did itunes no good anyway, i had one final reason. I decided to uninstall it.

Uninstalled and installed Serato again on the 64 bit laptop. This time 1.3 (from memory). Again, no itunes library. Still crashed a couple of times at start up, but after a couple of reboots it started to run a little more stable. Played around a little, track by track being added to library. Seemed ok. Minor delay on filters and samples etc…

So for now, my recommended solution is to kill itunes.

Had a little fun, but as it is impossible to narrow down search of browsed files, manually searching is too inconvenient. Hint: add this search function to you next update, or drag drop from explorer option.

I’ve dragged a massive folder into SDJ. It was left scanning overnight. Let’s see how it will handle a non-itunes library that size.

Q:

Serato won’t copy these files source files over into a location on C:, or will it?
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 8:19 AM 15 September 2013
I CAN CLEARLY SAY I-TUNES IS NOT THE ISSUE

I HAVE NEVER USED ITUNES WITH SERATO FOR MY MUSIC THE PROBLEM HAPPENED THE MOST AFTER ITCH 2.1
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 8:19 AM 15 September 2013
sorry for the caps lock
DjSyndic8 2:35 PM 15 September 2013
Quote:
I CAN CLEARLY SAY I-TUNES IS NOT THE ISSUE

I HAVE NEVER USED ITUNES WITH SERATO FOR MY MUSIC THE PROBLEM HAPPENED THE MOST AFTER ITCH 2.1


agree itunes has nothing to do with issue

Ive said it once Ill say it again Serato create a 64bit version already
Papa Midnight 4:11 PM 15 September 2013
Quote:
So for now, my recommended solution is to kill itunes.

We've been through this over the past two years and trust me when I say that we've all ruled out iTunes as the cause or the solution.
Kittmaster 6:07 PM 15 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
So for now, my recommended solution is to kill itunes.

We've been through this over the past two years and trust me when I say that we've all ruled out iTunes as the cause or the solution.


^^^Truth^^^....threads don't get this large if there wasn't a real problem, feedback, and resolution attempts....iTunes isn't the problem directly but can attribute if active. Serato already knows what the problem is....people need to clam up, there is no solution but for them to fix the app...end of story.
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 9:53 PM 15 September 2013
^^^agreed^^^
DjSyndic8 1:48 AM 16 September 2013
Quote:
people need to clam up, there is no solution but for them to fix the app...end of story


Or simply just say "Serato DJ is not for mobile DJs" because your music database cannot go over 40,000
FabulousFrequencies 4:09 AM 16 September 2013
Quote:
Or simply just say "Serato DJ is not for mobile DJs" because your music database cannot go over 40,000


Set DJ's only? LOL.

I'm a firm believer in keeping your collection tightly trimmed and organized, and I also don't use SDJ just yet. But I still feel bad for you guys. If you can drag a massive mess into any other software and get away with it, don't quite understand why Serato gets to be the exception. Hoping you all find resolve soon, and they can move on to other things as well. I am still looking forward to giving SDJ a serious go, i'm just waiting this stuff out. The new FX packages are really tuggin at my sleeve.

Anyone else leave a database attached? They need 'em!
LJ_WOOLSEY 9:55 AM 16 September 2013
I must admit all this BITCHING and users of serato software. And serato has asked for ONE thing from EVERY single user with this issue YOUR _Serato_ folder so that they can work on trying to find a FIX! Yet only a VERY SMALL % has bothered to upload them!!!

COME ON PEOPLE SEND SERATO YOUR _Serato_ folders SO THEY CAN GET A FIX SORTED!!!!

The bonus of doing this is when they have a fix they can load all of these databases and test to see if they all load and work!!!

Other wise they might end up just making it a little better and others still have the issue!
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:04 AM 16 September 2013
Quote:
Hey guys,

Work still continues here and I wanted to get a few more databases from you all. This is so that we can continue to test large libraries with real use cases AS well as some libraries we simulate here. I have a few already, but would like more :)

Please only do this with a library system that CRASHES when used with Serato DJ.
Please follow these instructions carefully if you wish to participate:

Quote:
1. Close all programs.
2. Go to your systems default music folder.
3. Right click > copy, the "_Serato_" folder.
4. Paste to your desktop.
5. Now open the _Serato_ folder and if you have a "recordings" folder, please send it to the trash/recycle bin. (The reason for this is I don't need this for the testing, but if you have recordings in it, it will take up a lot of unnecessary space, making the file bigger to upload to me.)
6. Right click then either "Compress" or "Zip" the folder.
7. Rename the zipped file as "_Serato_Your_Username" (Just so I can tell whos is whos).
7. Go to the following URL: serato.com
8. Upload the zipped up folder.
9. In the description of the file please put "ATT: MARTIN" and then list whether you use Windows or Mac.


Please make sure you follow all instructions, I don't want you guys messing up your libraries in any other ways. Let me know if you have questions, and thanks heaps if you make the effort to do this for me :)
beisi 10:20 AM 16 September 2013
For me it always crashes when 'show itunes library' is enabled

I never used the Serato crates and only used the itunes integration up until it started crashing (from one of mid Itch versions onwards to this day).

I now have 'show itunes' disabled and only have an extremely small library using the Serato crate structure. It does not crash now but properly sucks having to maintain different library structures.

What Martin is asking for above appears to be libraries that have lots of crates etc using the Serato container system.

Is it of any use to upload anything when it is the attempting to load itunes being the reason SDJ crashes?

If 'show itunes' is enabled is extra metadata to the Serato library folder or something like that? Up until now I assumed there is not any a point to upload this library... Are you also collecting itunes libraries?
Martin C 10:51 AM 16 September 2013
Yes, you can provide me with your "iTunes Music Library.xml" (maybe called "iTunes Library.xml" which is stored in your default music folder, then inside the iTunes folder.

Cheers LJ!
sasa1981 4:40 AM 17 September 2013
I already sent my library folder
Martin C 8:39 AM 17 September 2013
Yep got that one thanks!
DJ Quartz 7:57 PM 17 September 2013
@ Martin,

Don't forget you have my database to test against why mine works and others crash.

These are my specs,

Here is my Setup that can handle a 82000+ / 1000+ Crate Serato Database and Serato Video plugin...

Software tested SSL 2.5 / Itch 2.02 / Serato DJ 1.3

Macbook Pro 15-inch (Late 2011 Model)
8gb 1333mhz Ram DDR3
AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512MB
MacOSX 10.8.5 (Upgraded from 10.8.4 - 09/17/2013)
2 x 750gb 2.5" Western Digital Black drives with 64mb Cache
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:07 PM 17 September 2013
^ what happens with that on a pc???
Phurrious 8:25 PM 17 September 2013
Ok, I need to rant a little so please indulge me for a moment:
RANT ON -

It seem obvious to me that Serato just does not support PC users, instead favor Mac. If you do not want to put the time and energy into providing a stable useable piece of software for both platforms, that's your choice Serato, but please do not say that with X spec's our software will work on PC based machines. Obviously it DOES NOT!

What is even more annoying is that 1.3 was just released, with no solution to the database problem. When asked in another thread if this issue will be fixed by 1.5, the answer was no. WHY KEEP ADDING FEATURES TO A PIECE OF SOFTWARE THAT DOES NOT WORK PROPERLY TO BEGIN WITH? Oh yeah, because it works fine with Mac, so the other issue does not matter.

I never had these issues in Scratch Live, but since my Pioneer DDJ-SX only works with DJ, I am pretty much left with a very expensive night light.

With support ending for the other versions of Serato, please STOP WORKING ON NEW FEATURES AND ADD ONS AND START WORKING OUT THE ISSUES WITH THE CORE SOFTWARE!!

-Rant off
LJ_WOOLSEY 8:42 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
Ok, I need to rant a little so please indulge me for a moment:
RANT ON -

It seem obvious to me that Serato just does not support PC users, instead favor Mac. If you do not want to put the time and energy into providing a stable useable piece of software for both platforms, that's your choice Serato, but please do not say that with X spec's our software will work on PC based machines. Obviously it DOES NOT!

What is even more annoying is that 1.3 was just released, with no solution to the database problem. When asked in another thread if this issue will be fixed by 1.5, the answer was no. WHY KEEP ADDING FEATURES TO A PIECE OF SOFTWARE THAT DOES NOT WORK PROPERLY TO BEGIN WITH? Oh yeah, because it works fine with Mac, so the other issue does not matter.

I never had these issues in Scratch Live, but since my Pioneer DDJ-SX only works with DJ, I am pretty much left with a very expensive night light.

With support ending for the other versions of Serato, please STOP WORKING ON NEW FEATURES AND ADD ONS AND START WORKING OUT THE ISSUES WITH THE CORE SOFTWARE!!

-Rant off


So you have added your _Serato_ folders? Yes?
DJ Quartz 9:01 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
I never had these issues in Scratch Live, but since my Pioneer DDJ-SX only works with DJ, I am pretty much left with a very expensive night light.


Scratch Live has the same issue, that is where I ran into it first and then Itch was even worse.

This was on Windows XP, then I upgraded the system to Win7 64-bit, it improved but still had serious issues.
DJ Quartz 9:03 PM 17 September 2013
A technical definitive answer would be good as well...

Is it a clear cut Windows limitation, Application limitation or both?
DJ Quartz 9:22 PM 17 September 2013
My other question has ANYONE tried to test with a smaller database to see if you could actually run the application and learn it?
smarky-smark 10:29 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
A technical definitive answer would be good as well...

Is it a clear cut Windows limitation, Application limitation or both?


Quartz,

It is NOT just a windows issue.. However the program does work better on a Mac .. (Windows uses more resources to run)

I had an issue with the program on my Mac and have been to just barely get it to run before it runs out of ram space and locks up

Has anyone tried to run a netbook version of windows 7 on a more powerful pc.. The only reason I ask (I am not a computer whiz by any means) is that at my day job we have low power terminals that run a low resource usage version of win7 .. (Don't quote me but I think it's less than 30 processes)

Maybe that will help?? Until serato builds a 64 bit version of the program that can utilize more ram
smarky-smark 10:31 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
My other question has ANYONE tried to test with a smaller database to see if you could actually run the application and learn it?


Quartz

I did have some success (on my Mac) with a smaller database when I put it on a windows i7 16g ram powerhouse it had as many issues as u all are having
Papa Midnight 10:34 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
Has anyone tried to run a netbook version of windows 7 on a more powerful pc.. The only reason I ask (I am not a computer whiz by any means) is that at my day job we have low power terminals that run a low resource usage version of win7 .. (Don't quote me but I think it's less than 30 processes)

Windows 7 Starter? Not a chance in hell. Do yourself a favor and just run Windows 8 or XP.

Side note, what you're probably thinking of is Windows 7 Professional (or Enterprise) N which is stripped down to the bare minimum.

Additionally, although the suggestion is indeed welcome, it unfortunately won't help as it's not a question of available system resources. What we have here is a program which cannot allocate beyond 1.8GiB of Memory (tops).
FabulousFrequencies 10:51 PM 17 September 2013
I was reading over on stack that if they compile at build time with /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag set that windows will throw 4 gigs allocation at the program instead of 2. Also stated was the wow64 subsystem will allocate well above 4gb which would come in handy for ensuring the OS, cache, and programs all make use of their allowed limits and physical memory if installed. This applies to windows dev, btw. Anyone at Serato build a version with this flag to see if it finds the WIN crew any joy until further work can be done?
Papa Midnight 11:09 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
I was reading over on stack that if they compile at build time with /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag set that windows will throw 4 gigs allocation at the program instead of 2.


There's a program on techPowerUp! that can change the LAA flag of an executable. I have been considering giving it a go with ITCH / SDJ on Windows. The question is, is SSL/ITCH/SDJ already LAA aware? If it is, then that's an even bigger problem.

The program (as far as I am aware) was developed to address issues with Sins of a Solar Empire and GTA IV (which has it's own memory issues - and a lot of them) - the latter of which was made LAA aware in a later patch but the issues persist.
FabulousFrequencies 11:27 PM 17 September 2013
What do you really have to lose by trying? Or is there money involved with the program? It is my understanding (albeit, I just tinker) that it is the pointer math that needs to be WELL observed before setting that flag. So if there are pointer math issues to begin with, you'll know it pretty fast.
smarky-smark 11:40 PM 17 September 2013
Anyone remember the days u could just go to the club with ur cases of CDs .. And NOT be an IT guru to be a dj.. Ahh memories
WarpNote 11:41 PM 17 September 2013
I can still pretty much do that, or bring vinyl, its just that SSL is so much more versatile...
FabulousFrequencies 11:43 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
Anyone remember the days u could just go to the club with ur cases of CDs .. And NOT be an IT guru to be a dj.. Ahh memories


I'm actually sitting here going through a vinyl stack someone gave me for free, listening to the pointer sisters, and smiling at this comment.. haha.

Yes, I remember. I remember it being heavy and physically fatiguing. Things were simple, but simple came with a price too. To be fair, it did work!
FabulousFrequencies 11:45 PM 17 September 2013
And before anybody goes there.. Don't be hatin on the Neutron dance.
DJ Quartz 11:47 PM 17 September 2013
What boggles me is how I'm making this work somehow.
DjSyndic8 11:51 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
My other question has ANYONE tried to test with a smaller database to see if you could actually run the application and learn it?


yes it does run with smaller database for me its 40 to 50,000
FabulousFrequencies 11:51 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
What boggles me is how I'm making this work somehow.


Back your database and archive up to a green label HD with 8mb of cache and load everything from that. If you're bored and have that sort of time that is, the larger drive cache of the black label drives may take some edge of the systems virtual cache. Nice drive choices BTW.
FabulousFrequencies 11:51 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
What boggles me is how I'm making this work somehow.


Back your database and archive up to a green label HD with 8mb of cache and load everything from that. If you're bored and have that sort of time that is, the larger drive cache of the black label drives may take some edge of the systems virtual cache. Nice drive choices BTW.
DjSyndic8 11:53 PM 17 September 2013
Quote:
Has anyone tried to run a netbook version of windows 7 on a more powerful pc.. The only reason I ask (I am not a computer whiz by any means) is that at my day job we have low power terminals that run a low resource usage version of win7 .. (Don't quote me but I think it's less than 30 processes)

Maybe that will help?? Until serato builds a 64 bit version of the program that can utilize more ram


tried this and it still the same I run a light version of windows 7
nojretlas 12:32 PM 18 September 2013
My database is under 40,000 and I still can't run 1.3
DJ Quartz 1:38 PM 18 September 2013
Quote:
My database is under 40,000 and I still can't run 1.3


What errors are you getting?
Quote:
Back your database and archive up to a green label HD with 8mb of cache and load everything from that. If you're bored and have that sort of time that is, the larger drive cache of the black label drives may take some edge of the systems virtual cache. Nice drive choices BTW.



Thanks, at the time I had a window of opportunity to get the Mac I did because a student was moving the US and just finished school.

So I ordered the drive kit ahead of time because I always ran two drives in my Dell.

So I hustled my ass off because he was giving me a good deal and I got two good drives to run with.
nojretlas 1:47 PM 18 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
My database is under 40,000 and I still can't run 1.3


What errors are you getting?

Same as most......"Serato DJ has stopped working"
I reverted back to 1.2 and have no issues.
Since then I have changed laptops but have not given 1.3 a try because I am too busy to worry about crashes in the middle of my gig.
I wait patiently for a fix
DJ Quartz 2:06 PM 18 September 2013
PM me, I want to test some things with you.
mozeca 11:10 AM 19 September 2013
yep, expensive night light indeed...

Surely Apple is paying Serato off... should we call Samsung? ;)

no luck with larger library... back to 1.2
DJ Quartz 3:35 PM 19 September 2013
I need to know something, when you launch 1.3 does it immediately crash or if you look at the status bar at the bottom, is it scanning ID3 tags?
sasa1981 10:47 PM 26 September 2013
Quote:
I need to know something, when you launch 1.3 does it immediately crash or if you look at the status bar at the bottom, is it scanning ID3 tags?


Watchwww.youtube.com
Papa Midnight 11:51 PM 26 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
I need to know something, when you launch 1.3 does it immediately crash or if you look at the status bar at the bottom, is it scanning ID3 tags?


Watchwww.youtube.com

Looks to me like your database loaded fine, but you crashed while reading ID3 tags. Serato DJ barely even cracked 1 GB of memory usage (and there wasn't even a device connected by the looks of it).

I'd recommend checking your library for files with corrupt ID3 tags.
sasa1981 12:57 AM 27 September 2013
checked few times but always fails
FabulousFrequencies 1:20 AM 27 September 2013
Look at the name of the song in the bottom bar it crashes on. Move it and try again.
DJ Quartz 1:25 AM 27 September 2013
If you're on Windows there is a log file that will tell you what file it crashed on.
FabulousFrequencies 1:26 AM 27 September 2013
^^^ That's actually really helpful. Where is it?
DJ Quartz 1:31 AM 27 September 2013
It will be in the Serato folder located in the user folder in Windows.

I have to run but could provide more details later.
Aaron E 2:34 AM 27 September 2013
The file you want to check sasa1981 is called OverviewBuilder.log

It lives in the _Serato_ folder in Windows or Mac. If you get a crash while scanning or analyzing files, the last file in this log will be the one the application crashed on. You have to check it straight away because this file is re-built on each open.

If you still have issues after eliminating problematic files, it would be best to open a new help request (before SDJ 1.5 is released would be preferable :)

Cheers
sasa1981 3:14 AM 27 September 2013
Im rescanning my library again will see what gonna happen its gonna take a while I have like 80 k of songs
FabulousFrequencies 3:21 AM 27 September 2013
I have had files crash that were not picked up by the scan. To avoid wasting a lot of time, the best recourse would be to go straight for the last file before the crash, and move it elsewhere to exclude it from the import process when it starts. And then of course try to restart. Efficiency in a troubleshooting approach can save a lot of your personal time.
dj t-money 1:00 PM 29 September 2013
Ok the best thing to do is scan your database delete the corrupted files if there's any this part is lame but only put tracks you defoe going to use as DJ you want have all your tracks available to you but this is the best way around it, it works perfectly fine for me and sure I have got more than 70, 0000 tracks. My specs are the macbook pro 15" i7 500 hd 1 tb external hd and pioneer ddj sx one more never load iTunes library that's it's hope it works for you all
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:31 PM 29 September 2013
You have a mac not windows! The issue on mac seems from peoples reports seems tobe over 90,000 files it starts. On windows anywhere over 12,000 files.
Papa Midnight 1:40 PM 29 September 2013
Quote:
On windows anywhere over 12,000 files.

I can definitely say I have well over that amount and run without issue on Windows...

Either way, the crash we observed is not related to the database issue by the looks of it. It reminds me of crashes I had courtesy of files with corrupted ID3 tags. As soon as I weeded those out, we were good to go.
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:02 PM 29 September 2013
They key word anywhere over. As in that is the lowest amount of files i have seen this issue on windows. Because it also depends how manu crates and subcrates you have.

It is database issue if you delete database it opens without crashing but you have to delete it every time.

Anyway i have seen serato starting to post they have now made good progress on this issue and a fix is coming. I have seen that posted on facebook.
Kittmaster 2:03 PM 29 September 2013
Do you have a link to the facebook post?
LJ_WOOLSEY 2:07 PM 29 September 2013
Nope as i cant view page posts on facebook for iphone.

But when i read it was posted on someone moaning about the database issue and also was a reply to a question on one of seratos posts.

Not sure if Martin can share anymore info on this?
Kittmaster 2:29 PM 29 September 2013
I think I recall reading it....I won't hold my breathe.
Papa Midnight 4:28 PM 29 September 2013
Quote:
Anyway i have seen serato starting to post they have now made good progress on this issue and a fix is coming.

Not for nothing, but the last time someone said something was coming, it didn't quite get there (serato.com).

I'll wait for proof before I get my hopes up.
LJ_WOOLSEY 5:57 PM 29 September 2013
Lol yes but that was a feature not a bug fix.

Anyway lets wait see if Martin has any update he can publicly talk about.
Atlsdjredd 8:19 PM 29 September 2013
Hey DeeJays..
I was having this issue and was confused.. But what I did was rename all the serato folders from Itch... so for instance if _Serato_ became _serato_old and the same for _serato_backup
to _serato_backup_old, Restarted Serato DJ and just went to files and dragged and drop the files back into the crates. Depending on how many files you have it will take sometime to scan but all the settings as far as BPM will still be there.

Please try and see what happens.. You could always delete the new _serato_ folder created by Serato DJ.. and rename the one you changed back to its original name if all else fails..
Good Luck

Sincerely ATLS DJ RED
Kittmaster 10:31 PM 29 September 2013
Quote:
Hey DeeJays..
I was having this issue and was confused.. But what I did was rename all the serato folders from Itch... so for instance if _Serato_ became _serato_old and the same for _serato_backup
to _serato_backup_old, Restarted Serato DJ and just went to files and dragged and drop the files back into the crates. Depending on how many files you have it will take sometime to scan but all the settings as far as BPM will still be there.

Please try and see what happens.. You could always delete the new _serato_ folder created by Serato DJ.. and rename the one you changed back to its original name if all else fails..
Good Luck

Sincerely ATLS DJ RED


Thanks for the suggestion, but this has also proven to have zero effect, it's a function # of files, number of crates, and number subcrates.

The only real work around is to reduce "them all" as acknowledged and validated by Serato themselves.

There is no fix but Serato to fix it within their code.....it's really just that simple.
Martin C 10:42 PM 29 September 2013
Quote:
Anyway lets wait see if Martin has any update he can publicly talk about.


No, sorry nothing to announce just yet. Thanks to everyone who have sent their databases so far though.
Atlsdjredd 12:30 PM 30 September 2013
Okay. Sorry its just a suggestion. I had the same issues as most of you and thats what worked for me...and I have over 100 k songs.. but I hope you guys find a fix or should I say Martin..

GO DEEJAYS! WE ROCK
sasa1981 3:04 PM 30 September 2013
Come on fix this already my software crashed 4 times Friday it's getting really crazy. I hate to worry whole night if it will crash after next song. My library is error free I scanned all the songs. I have about 80k songs. Serato crashes on both win and Mac.
DjSyndic8 3:53 PM 30 September 2013
Quote:
Come on fix this already my software crashed 4 times Friday it's getting really crazy. I hate to worry whole night if it will crash after next song. My library is error free I scanned all the songs. I have about 80k songs. Serato crashes on both win and Mac.


80ks of music is too much try 40k
Papa Midnight 4:10 PM 30 September 2013
Quote:
80ks of music is too much

Can we stop this line of thought, please?
FabulousFrequencies 4:16 PM 30 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
80ks of music is too much

Can we stop this line of thought, please?


I just think he meant too much for Serato, at the moment.

Serato needs a bigger trunk.. lh6.googleusercontent.com
sasa1981 9:32 PM 30 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
80ks of music is too much

Can we stop this line of thought, please?


Can't size it down really my env is different when you have 5 different language music it's not really that much.
DjSyndic8 11:13 PM 30 September 2013
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
80ks of music is too much

Can we stop this line of thought, please?


Can't size it down really my env is different when you have 5 different language music it's not really that much.


still have all your music on the same drive just not on the Serato DJ database
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 2:42 PM 1 October 2013
has anyone with this problem tried using 1.5 and did it fix the problem ?
I know its not listed as a fix so im asking
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 2:44 PM 1 October 2013
sorry for the double post I didn't do it ;)
DjSyndic8 2:48 PM 1 October 2013
Quote:
has anyone with this problem tried using 1.5 and did it fix the problem ?
I know its not listed as a fix so im asking


na I started using itch 1.7 was still the same problem
Kittmaster 2:48 PM 1 October 2013
It has not been fixed in 1.5.
DjSyndic8 2:51 PM 1 October 2013
has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 3:14 PM 1 October 2013
don't have no files over 20 min
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 3:15 PM 1 October 2013
im still on 2.1 works fine on there for me I just want the problem fixed so one I can finaly try it and 2 so I can go pick up a ns7 2
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 3:19 PM 1 October 2013
not wasting money on something till I know its working
DjSyndic8 4:31 PM 1 October 2013
Quote:
not wasting money on something till I know its working


I don't think the NS72 will work with Itch 2.1

Smoothblends are you having "Large database" issues too?
Papa Midnight 4:39 PM 1 October 2013
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It has not been fixed in 1.5.

Nor will it likely be fixed in 1.6 according to Martin C. We'll have to keep pushing this one.
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 7:59 PM 1 October 2013
ill deal with it and keep trying to figure out a solution with quartz while it happen
who do u think will fix it first lol had to bring some humor
any ways they are the ones loosing money right now

I aint dropping 1500 for paper weight
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 8:05 PM 1 October 2013
yeah syn and I know it wont work with itch that's y im not attempting to buy it
DJSMOOTHBLENDZ 8:10 PM 1 October 2013
i might get the ns7II or just get the pioneer sp6 cuz i realy don't need 4 channels but they need to fix it so i can buy something once my ns7 works with it if not nope

oh and syn i have sent my data base in i been here complaining about since dj came out and we all still here
sasa1981 10:17 PM 1 October 2013
I been complaining like everywhere I can and still nothing. That's it I will not buy single serato product till they fix those issues.
Kittmaster 2:08 AM 2 October 2013
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has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)


I have several files that are over those times......all load in just fine.
Papa Midnight 3:06 AM 2 October 2013
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has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)


I have several files that are over those times......all load in just fine.

Likewise. I've got 3 hour files that load in with no issue.
DJ NI-TEE 3:08 AM 2 October 2013
delete the files that are corrupted and also delete all doubles no one is going to play every song in your and if your running any anti-virus program such as Norton delete it and use windows essentials does the job and does take up memory I have a pc and I use the NS6 and I haven't had a problem yet with serato DJ 1.5 I think it works better then the previous versions Just clean up your data base and try not make many crates :)
DjSyndic8 12:43 PM 2 October 2013
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Quote:
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has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)


I have several files that are over those times......all load in just fine.

Likewise. I've got 3 hour files that load in with no issue.


on Macs its alright but windows it would always crash
Papa Midnight 2:19 PM 2 October 2013
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Quote:
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has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)


I have several files that are over those times......all load in just fine.

Likewise. I've got 3 hour files that load in with no issue.


on Macs its alright but windows it would always crash

I'd investigate deeper into your own circumstance there. I've done this with 3 and 4 hour long files on Windows XP, Windows 7 (64-bit), and Windows 2008 R2 (Yes, this actually happened - serato.com) without issue.
DjSyndic8 3:24 PM 2 October 2013
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Quote:
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has any one here scanned a whole folder of medleys tracks that are 60 to 80min long I noticed that on a windows PC this would cause Serato DJ to crash (out of memory issue)


I have several files that are over those times......all load in just fine.

Likewise. I've got 3 hour files that load in with no issue.


on Macs its alright but windows it would always crash

I'd investigate deeper into your own circumstance there. I've done this with 3 and 4 hour long files on Windows XP, Windows 7 (64-bit), and Windows 2008 R2 (Yes, this actually happened - serato.com) without issue.


good to know thanks Papa Midnight
BeatWiz 12:29 AM 7 October 2013
I've been using Itch for a couple of years without issues. Decided to try Serato DJ 1.5. It crashes as soon as I connect my NS6 controller. After doing research and several tests I think I've also hit the issue with large database crashing. I have ~70k songs in the database. 37 crates which have ~8k songs in them.

The same library works fine with Itch. But in Serato DJ 1.5 it crashes as soon as I connect the controller. Serato DJ 1.5 consumes 775MB RAM when it has loaded my database with no controller connected. It does seems a bit low for crashing due to memory. I see many users experience crashes around 1.2GB. Not sure how much extra RAM it will need when connecting the controller. Realistically it shouldn't need more than 100MB tops.

I removed my library folder and started SDJ - now it works even when my controller is connected. The crash is library clearly library related - and after reading the forums it looks like I hit the memory/large library issue.

To bad, I do like the SDJ interface better than Itch.

I do hope this gets fixed soon.
djJay T 1:39 AM 7 October 2013
I would simply add a team of coders and programmers from Google.... It would appear that they manager some of the largest databases the world has to offer... if not Google then head over to FACEBOOK...... I am sure a consultant in either of those to think tanks can look at the code and have a fix in hour..... give it to right team and the code for Serato will be written and included in the reply.... If Serato can't handle large volumes of data with each release...What good is it.......????? Im still using Serato DJ 1.1.2 what good are effects if I have to go through and get rid of songs I may want to apply those effect too... and the Team should have written the code for 64bit Period...
Shalobee 4:17 PM 7 October 2013
you should try serato dj 1.3 it has the new effects and works for me when 1.5 won't even start for me.
BeatWiz 8:15 PM 7 October 2013
Shalobee: Thanks for the tip! Uninstalled 1.5 and installed 1.3. Same issue - crashes when connecting NS6 controller.

Uninstalled 1.3 and installed 1.2.1 - still crashing when controller is connected.

750M RAM is consumed by SDJ 1.2.1 before I connect the controller.

Itch 2.2.2 runs fine using same library/same computer. With/without controller connected.

Itch 2.2.2 - RAM without controller connected: 715MB
Itch 2.2.2 - RAM with controller connected: 1001MB


Serato DJ uses 35 MB more RAM without controller connected.
Looks like that is enough to trigger the bug!?

Itch still works for me, but now I'm not sure what to do. It's like I'm sitting on a time bomb where the large library issue will hit me soon anyway in Itch if I add more songs. Spent lot's of time over the past years to organize/analyze and set cue points/loops on my songs. I do several types of jobs, weddings, corporate events, clubs, private parties etc. Really need a huge variety of music. Of course I could reduce my database 25-30% without too much problems - but the time it would take to go through all songs and make a decision what to keep would be a royal P.I.T.A. Feels like if I have to go through all my songs again I might as well do it in Traktor or VDJ where there's no issues with large libraries.

Serato, you asked for library samples from users. With all libraries you received, do you have a test case where you can reproduce the issue with? If you can reproduce it then you should be able to run your source code through a debugger and find the cause of the crash. Have you found the root cause of the crash in the code? Any estimate when we can expect this to be addressed?
djx 2:15 AM 8 October 2013
I have been having the same issue and after working with this for hours and trying different things I have found a fix. I have played with the controller and my large database for hours with no crash.

Serato does not like to load a large database or is unable to do so. Make sure your external hard drive is not plugged into usb, start Serato and let it load. Once your Serato is loaded, turn on your controller. After your controller is turned on and Serato had read the controller, plug in your external hard drive.

For some reason this is working. I have done this several times and it keeps working. After your Serato is up and running it has no problem scanning your hard drive but it will not do this from the start.
Kittmaster 2:26 AM 8 October 2013
Your assumption is that everyone is using an external drive. My system is a chassis mount computer with a main and slave drives.....no way to disconnect them and use your "fix"....

If it works, great, but for most, it won't.......thanks for the feedback
BeatWiz 2:41 AM 8 October 2013
@djx: I do have an external USB drive. Following your steps does seem to work!!! I couldn't start SDJ at all if the external drive was connected before I connected the controller.

Need to do some more testing to be sure it's stable - but it's clearly a major step forward.

Thanks!
djx 3:11 AM 8 October 2013
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Your assumption is that everyone is using an external drive. My system is a chassis mount computer with a main and slave drives.....no way to disconnect them and use your "fix"....

If it works, great, but for most, it won't.......thanks for the feedback


@Kittmaster: Most of us are mobile or large club dj's where a chassis mount will not ever work. If a Dj has more than what will fit on a laptop than they will have an external and or they will load a laptop for every event off an external.

This fix was a suggestion to those on this forum that are running externals. I have not ran a chassis computer in years as all of my gear is all laptop run. I don't even have a chassis computer that I could try things on or I would try and help your situation as well.

@BeatWiz: Glad it worked for you, I have been frustrated with this for weeks! I am still testing this as well. I am hoping this continues to work until Serato finds a fix for this problem.
Papa Midnight 3:57 AM 8 October 2013
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@Kittmaster: Most of us are mobile or large club dj's where a chassis mount will not ever work. If a Dj has more than what will fit on a laptop than they will have an external and or they will load a laptop for every event off an external.

You assume each DJ here with a laptop has a need for an external drive. I use one, but that's out of convienence. Before this, I experimented with RAID1 and RAID0 builds in excess of 1TiB and had the same bug. I don't even have ¼ of my library loaded into the database because of this problem - and, by comparison to some of the guys here (especially the video guys), my library is a thumb drive.

While I appreciate the fact that you found a "fix" for your specific circumstance, and your suggestion may very well help someone in a similar situation, the fact of the matter is that where you have been working at this for a few hours, we've been prodding at Serato about this for years.
Kittmaster 1:12 PM 8 October 2013
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Your assumption is that everyone is using an external drive. My system is a chassis mount computer with a main and slave drives.....no way to disconnect them and use your "fix"....

If it works, great, but for most, it won't.......thanks for the feedback


@Kittmaster: Most of us are mobile or large club dj's where a chassis mount will not ever work. If a Dj has more than what will fit on a laptop than they will have an external and or they will load a laptop for every event off an external.

This fix was a suggestion to those on this forum that are running externals. I have not ran a chassis computer in years as all of my gear is all laptop run. I don't even have a chassis computer that I could try things on or I would try and help your situation as well.


As I said, the feedback is welcome, but again, your assumptions are wrong, I am ALSO a mobile DJ and I happen to use a full coffin and amp rack because of my systems evolution over time. In my particular MOBILE case, there are no externals in use, only a main drive and slaves. I also have backup computers linked in for the event of a crash.

You can see the gear here if you're interested:

www.aaron-beachproductions.com

This has been a persistent problem for years now, and as I said, I'm sure others will benefit from your interim "fix". The problem needs to be corrected, not worked around.

Regards,
djx 2:43 PM 8 October 2013
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Quote:
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Your assumption is that everyone is using an external drive. My system is a chassis mount computer with a main and slave drives.....no way to disconnect them and use your "fix"....

If it works, great, but for most, it won't.......thanks for the feedback


@Kittmaster: Most of us are mobile or large club dj's where a chassis mount will not ever work. If a Dj has more than what will fit on a laptop than they will have an external and or they will load a laptop for every event off an external.

This fix was a suggestion to those on this forum that are running externals. I have not ran a chassis computer in years as all of my gear is all laptop run. I don't even have a chassis computer that I could try things on or I would try and help your situation as well.


As I said, the feedback is welcome, but again, your assumptions are wrong, I am ALSO a mobile DJ and I happen to use a full coffin and amp rack because of my systems evolution over time. In my particular MOBILE case, there are no externals in use, only a main drive and slaves. I also have backup computers linked in for the event of a crash.

You can see the gear here if you're interested:

www.aaron-beachproductions.com

This has been a persistent problem for years now, and as I said, I'm sure others will benefit from your interim "fix". The problem needs to be corrected, not worked around.

Regards,


Kittmaster: I have looked at your gear and we are totally two different kinds of dj's. If I was running a setup like yours, I would have been looking at possible ways to help. I do not have this setup so I am unable to try and find a working solution for the time being.

I am simply trying to help those who are running the same or comparable setup as I am. I can't fix problems for everyone as all of our gear varies. I really do wish I could help you because I know how frustrating this situation gets.

Serato does need to fix this issue and soon. I never had this problem with Serato when I first bought it and I have used Serato since day 1 of them releasing. Believe me, I have been so irritated with Serato lately that I have looked into changing everything to a different company just to have it work properly.

I really wish I could help you but I will keep my ears open as I know a ton of people using this that may have found a work around for a chassis computer. These are only work arounds but Serato needs to fix this soon before they lose all us good customers. I love Serato but we need a stable working program.
SBDJ 8:25 PM 8 October 2013
For internal PC drives you could always remove the drive letter in disk management, then add it back once SDJ has opened which would have the same effect.
Papa Midnight 9:46 PM 8 October 2013
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For internal PC drives you could always remove the drive letter in disk management, then add it back once SDJ has opened which would have the same effect.

Holy shit, it's Scott. Haven't seen you in ages man, how's it going?
Kittmaster 10:33 PM 8 October 2013
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For internal PC drives you could always remove the drive letter in disk management, then add it back once SDJ has opened which would have the same effect.


Sure, but who has time for that when your setting up 50' truss lighting, pa array speakers and all the rest during setup.... :(
djJay T 7:13 AM 9 October 2013
Okay I.know for a fact this works....Large database or not...even with the controller on before launching serato and with an external hard drive connected...ver 1.1.2...runs.like a beast and im 968k......
LJ_WOOLSEY 7:24 AM 9 October 2013
You have 968,000 tracks!!!! You best upload your serato folder so serato can see why that would work!

You on pc or mac or hackintosh?
djJay T 7:31 AM 9 October 2013
I.have no idea why it works but it does....I am running 3tb of files the only issue I.have ever run into is out of memory which means I.have too many crates. I work 4 totally different gigs every week plus special events and weddings...g74 64bit win 7 ulultimate 16 gig of plus 3gig of 3d graphics 2.0 with turbo boost to 3.2 Asus
Kittmaster 12:30 PM 9 October 2013
Is that amount of tracks loaded into database or the memory usage that windows is reporting that that app is using with the tracks that you have loaded....
djJay T 1:15 PM 9 October 2013
Memory used by app WITH serato video running
Kittmaster 1:31 PM 9 October 2013
ok, well that isn't the same thing, if you have 968,000 individual counted tracks loaded into the library, then yes, that would be interesting to see how it works. My library with 86K songs actually loaded into the library and it pushes the memory boundary to about 988KB of physical used memory in windows and when the V7's and NS7 is plugged it, it hits around 1GB ish of windows in use memory, and so far no crashing.

It's the amount of crates and subcrates and actual titles (audio or video) loaded into the library that creates the problem, not the physical size of the files or how big the hard drive is....
DjSyndic8 1:48 PM 9 October 2013
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Okay I.know for a fact this works....Large database or not...even with the controller on before launching serato and with an external hard drive connected...ver 1.1.2...runs.like a beast and im 968k......


do u have alot of subcrates?
DjSyndic8 1:49 PM 9 October 2013
also please do us a video demo of your work around please DJAY T
djJay T 1:51 PM 9 October 2013
Im @ 95% video files. I have deleted my entire database and deleted all references to serato on all hard drives and it still loaded at 775k of physical memory. It didn't crash but other things started happening like have to load a track twice because it came in with no algorithm or program would glitch and freeze...after 5hours of trying to make it work I.gave up and went back to 1.1.2
Papa Midnight 2:00 PM 9 October 2013
I'd be very curious to see your database...
djJay T 2:03 PM 9 October 2013
Yes I have a ton of subcrates
Papa Midnight 2:05 PM 9 October 2013
Now I'm even more curious. Any chance you can dropbox your database?
djJay T 2:07 PM 9 October 2013
I have drop box haven't used it because I can't remember the password...hold on
djJay T 2:12 PM 9 October 2013
What do you want a picture of?
SBDJ 3:48 PM 9 October 2013
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Holy shit, it's Scott. Haven't seen you in ages man, how's it going?


Can't complain I guess, I'm still alive after all...

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Sure, but who has time for that when your setting up 50' truss lighting, pa array speakers and all the rest during setup.... :(


Absolutely, I'd never remember it either. Hell 50% of the time I forget to switch my X1600 into USB B mode. You could use a diskpart script to do it automatically though if that helps.
BeatWiz 4:31 AM 10 October 2013
Been using djx method to get SDJ 1.5 started with my NS6 controller. That has been working consistently the last few days. However, I do experience crashes when using effects. Switching effects back and forth and SDJ will crash. Again, most likely caused by large the same library/memory issue. Read other forum posts about crashes when switching effects.

I have ~70k songs in database, only 37 crates/subcrates with ~8k songs in them. No corrupt files. The Serato process size is 891 MB with controller connected and library loaded.

Asus G750JX, Win 8, i7 4700HQ, 24GB RAM, 250 GB SSD for OS and 2TB external USB 3.0 drive (music)

I know Win 8 is not officially supported... But I have no issues at all when runningsame database with Itch on the same computer.

Do hope Serato takes this issue seriously. This is more important to fix than any new feature IMHO.


@Serato ( I asked this above earlier, but don't see any response...) You asked for library samples from users. With all libraries you received, do you ha